Talkback: Innov_ex Innovation Prize Gets Bikey!

12 messages
20/04/2012 at 14:29
Cleat Feet "which allows racers to use efficient clipless pedals with conventional shoes." - I don't really get it...

I always thought the efficiency of a clipless pedal set-up in transfering the cyclist's power was down to two things:
- the stiffened sole of a specialised cycling shoe to provide a solid platform, and
- the direct connection to the pedal that allows power transfer to continue through the pull-up phase as well as the push down.

Surely wearing some form of running shoe negates the first of those, and an attachment system similar to micro-crampons can't do all that much for the second - there must be some stretch or give, so are they really going to be any better than a traditional flat pedal and toe-clip system?

I can see more point for the recreational cyclist perhaps, the tourer or mtb'er who want's to ditch the cleats when they get off the bike, or for someone who usually uses cleated footwear and pedals but occasionally needs to ride in standard shoes. But overall I'd have thought flat pedals and toeclips/straps were just as good a solution - perhaps it's just that they don't look 'serious' or cool enough?
20/04/2012 at 15:16
Easier to stamp down/twist, than push in/pull out.

Clips & straps don't work with bigger boots, and/or can result in cramped/cold toes. They also hang down under the pedal when not in use.

More relevant to tourers than performance sports, though, I'd agree.
20/04/2012 at 17:54

A tale of woe for anyone using SPD type clip ins.

I went over the handlebars on a mountain downhill wearing SPD's.

One of my feet didn't unclip, and i ended up doing 'the splits' on my back, with all the weight of the bike going through one hip joint.

Torn 'laberal sheath' on the hip needed repairing. After surgery, i'm still fecked, and my hillwalking 'career' has been on hold for years.

Don't use them. They are the work of the devil.


23/04/2012 at 10:54
Montgomery Wick wrote (see)
Easier to stamp down/twist, than push in/pull out.

Mike back in Dundee wrote (see)

One of my feet didn't unclip, and i ended up doing 'the splits' on my back...


I think I'd be concerned about the 'twist' release. If these attach to shoes/boots in a similar way to Microspikes, then over time they become 'baggy'. The last thing I'd want is the 'twist' to be absorbed by the attachment, leading to a release failure.

23/04/2012 at 14:11
Cleat Feat is suited to all situations and is being developed further to suit each situation individually.
Cage pedals are known as death traps for the simple fact that you cant get your feet out quick enough. So as you guys say, for leisure cyclists cleat feat are ideal.

For multi dicipline events where all kit is carried, losing the weight and bulk of an extra pair of shoes in your pac is very benificial and every second is crucial in transition and htis saves you changing shoes. In mtn biking the majority of research has shown that both of these factors weight out the benifits that a stiffer shoe gives.

Testing has proven it's performance above platform pedals. This product could also be used as a cross over when first trying cleats before splashing out on £100+ bike shoes.
Note: Cleat Feat is not designed for competitive road cycling where a stiff shoe is very benificial!
23/04/2012 at 19:53
Matt

I can only apologise that I have used generic phrases to try & get the overall effect of the system effectively communicated

Cleat Feet are NOT as efficient as specifically designed cycle shoes, but are a great improvement for those that bike in other footwear - certainly a safer alternative to cage pedals

The product was praised by the judges for the complete approach to a design solution & I am very keen that innovation gets a chance to succeed. If it turns out that the concept is better than the product, then I am sure social media will spread the word; meanwhile you are recommended to wait & see if things do get better for some of those on bikes

rgds
23/04/2012 at 20:03

Don't use them. They are the work of the devil.

But if you don't attach yourself you run more risk of crashing due to losing balance when your feet fly off the pedals taking a big hit, and it's harder to hop your way out of trouble from tree roots etc.

(I much prefer Time's ATACs, aside from various other advantages there's no silly buggering about setting release tensions.  Mine have come out when required by "unplanned dismounts").

Pete.

23/04/2012 at 21:15

"Cage pedals are known as death traps for the simple fact that you cant get your feet out quick enough."

Really? I've never had a problem getting my feet out of my toeclips, can't think of a single instance in 15 years when I've not got my foot out in time, on or off road. I keep the straps fairly loose to aid a quick exit, but they also keep my feet attached to the pedals well enough.

I think Cleat Feet sound like a clever idea, but the benefits being touted just aren't as self-evident as is being presented. But, if the design and production genuinely nail some of the concerns expressed here, then they could be a useful item.

24/04/2012 at 13:05

Toeclips work for me everytime. Never had issues with them from day one. I am only a roadie so I guess lower risk of quick foot release problems. My only issue is my cage part has broken on one and they don't make shimano toe clip cage replacements that will fit. It is a triangular attachment point to a minimalist pedal. That means I'll have to go for simple flat pedals or get cleated pair. Shame really as the cage and toe clip pedal I have really works well.

Anyway, for most users do you really need that performance increase clipless gives over toeclips?? If you want a pedal that can be used with clipless cleated shoes but you still want to use normal shoes at times then why not just get ones that have flat pedals one side and cleats the other?? Shimano do some nice ones at a reasonable price. Surely this is one solution that is here, fully developed and market tested?? I don't want to stifle innovation with my comments but is it just coming up with another solution for problems that have already been solved satisfactorily or perhaps trying to create a new need for gear?? Good luck to them if the latter!! I mean we always need more gear to buy don't we!! (rhetorical question that doesn't need answering).

24/04/2012 at 16:14

Anyway, for most users do you really need that performance increase clipless gives over toeclips?

"Need", or "like"?  Do I need an expensive recumbent tourer?  No, but I still have one, because I like it! But these aren't for "most users" in any case: see below...

If you want a pedal that can be used with clipless cleated shoes but you still want to use normal shoes at times then why not just get ones that have flat pedals one side and cleats the other?

That was my first reaction, but then I read it more closely and saw that I'd missed the point.  The point being these are for in an environment where you want some of the benefits of clipping in without having the baggage space to take an extra pair of shoes.  As above, this is not "most users", but it is "some users".

Pete.

24/04/2012 at 23:27
I would suggest someone who's never used clipless pedals perhaps doesn't have sufficient experience to make an informed judgement of their relative merits. Having ridden many, many thousands of miles in both clips/straps and clipless (Time) pedals, I can tell you there's no comparison.

Shimano do some nice ones at a reasonable price

No; cheap bearings, and I don't want to be frantically fumbling for the 'other side' of a set of pedals when I'm rattling over rocks like babies' heads or about to bunnyhop a drainage ditch.

In my cycling career I have broken my right arm, left hand and suffered a Grade II separated shoulder. All took place on tarmac (admittedly I was very drunk for one of them); none were a result of an inability to get out of clipless pedals. By contrast, there have been plenty of offroad downhills where I only got through because of the feedback I was getting from a bike I was firmly attached to.
24/04/2012 at 23:54
I've just dumped my Shimano SPDs and gone to V12s - a million times happier and my first race on them the other week resulted in no tumbles. I can say for sure - I'd have fallen at times if I'd been attached to the bike.

Each to their own IME and what works best for one won't always be right for another. Confidence in the equipment you're using is a big factor and after 5 years... I'd had enough of being attached to the bike. SPDs literally sapped my confidence and slowed my pace, Good riddance. I'll miss the ability to pull upwards and give different muscles a 'rest' but that's a price worth paying in return for regaining my balance and poise.

It's good to be back on a hardatail too.
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