Talkback: It's A Soft Shell, It's A Hard Shell, Erm...

Peter Clinch

21/09/2011 at 21:23

Soft Shell is, as far as folk flogging it are concerned, anything they happen want to flog you. So if Mammut say it's soft shell then... <bof>

But those of us who think something like Powershield (Amateur) is as far down the limits of breathability as we want to go it's just pish from marketing departments. Not like the first time that's happened...

Pete.

Edited: 21/09/2011 at 21:28

Jon Doran

22/09/2011 at 10:16

You could argue, pretty convincingly, that the whole 'soft shell' concept is just a confusing, catch-all that includes anything that's not waterproof, but has more weather resistance than, say, a fleece.

Effectively it is, as I said before, a tough, slightly weighty, stretchy, waterproof jacket that should have really good breathability for a waterproof.

Note, 'for a waterproof' - it's not as breathable as either PowerShield, which is my personal benchmark for optimum protection/breathability balance, in the 'enough of both' sense. Or PowerShield Pro, which is pretty well waterproof, but less breathable again.

All three fabrics use the same technology, but trade breathability and 'weather resistance' along the other axis. Or something like that...

There was an industry survey when 'soft shell' first appeared that, from memory, basically said that customers were just confused by the term. It's like having fruit and veg all in one category with a potato at one end of the scale and a peach at the other - or something like that...

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com

Mr Fuller

22/09/2011 at 10:32

I always thought of softshell as 'more breathable than a hardshell, more windproof than a fleece'. The fact that 'hardshell' was undefined did not concern me... The line between the two is definitely blurred by things like this jacket and by Paramo, and at that border perhaps the most interesting stuff is happening.

Edited: 22/09/2011 at 10:33

Martin Carpenter

22/09/2011 at 10:35

Well, not that anyone will, but you could very easily define them objectively - just require something like: (a) a hard shell is waterproof (to some HH), (b) some minimum CFM requirement for the air flow of a soft shell. Something like 4/5 would make sense.

That makes neo shell a very breathable hard shell, windstopper orphaned and powershield pro somewhere firmly inbetween

Paramo is logically a hugely water resistant soft shell because thats how it behaves/feels in use.

Edited: 22/09/2011 at 10:37

Jon Doran

22/09/2011 at 11:41

I look at it this way, the holy grail is a fully waterproof shell with the breathability of a fleece, a DWR that is genuinely durable and with a proper functional design and a reasonable weight. Eventually all shell jackets will be made that way, but don't hold your breath...

... but yes, it's on the borders between hard shell and soft shell or whatever it is, that interesting things are happening.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com

Peter Clinch

22/09/2011 at 14:23

If it's waterproof it's a hard shell. If you try and flog it past that then either it's Paramo or similar, or it's just marketing trying to pretend it's more than it is ("Goretex Soft Shell" probably the worst offender to date).

Pete.

Matt C

22/09/2011 at 19:03

There was a Columbia jacket featured on here last November that described itself as "softshell with fully seam sealed, waterproof/breathable Omni-Tech fabric", and a couple of days later I saw a well known blogger describe the OMM Kamleika as waterproof softshell. The reply when I picked him up on this use of the term softshell was:

".... the term “waterproof softshell” has been an issue in the trade. Some folk reckon it’s a death sentence for a waterproof to have the softshell word near it, but if it is waterproof and has a stretchy, soft handling fabric, then it is softshell.
There’s been attempts to make hardshell and softshell apply to the nature of the fabric, and add either waterproof, weather resistant or windproof to that so that folk can see exactly what it is... "

Sounds like a recipe for confusion and disaster to me!

(not that the term 'softshell' in itself isn't )

Mikel von Dundeeski

22/09/2011 at 19:07

Hard Shell = waterproof.

Anyothernameyouwanttodreamup Shell = not waterproof.

Matt C

22/09/2011 at 19:13

Waterproof Shell....

.... er, Mike, I think I've found the flaw in your logic!

Mikel von Dundeeski

22/09/2011 at 19:18

If it says waterproof, then it must be a hard shell.

John Burley

22/09/2011 at 19:47

I'm confused. Does a peach have a soft shell? I thought that was a furry skin?

Sandpiper

22/09/2011 at 20:07

According to the repository of all worldly knowledge, a softshell is what you wear when you've just outgrown your hardshell. The old hard shell gets thrown away, and you've got a little while before you get a new one that fits better.

As a result, you're more vulnerable to the elements and easier to eat.

Peter Clinch

23/09/2011 at 09:06

But until you do get eaten you're safe in the knowledge that you're cutting-edge hip and trendy...

Pete McKenzie

27/09/2011 at 12:27

Totally agree, the soft/hard shell has always confused me, at the end of the day its not what the name is, its the quality of the gear and Paramo seem to be leading the way.

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