Well. I prefer higher routes; no rhyme or reason. Are the views better? Who knows? I just like the feel.
There are quite a few people around on the GR20 if you want to walk with others. That would not be my choice and solo would be great IMO. I spent most of my time trying to catch my brother ... I think he wanted to be on his own!
Difficult to say whether the high routes have the better views or not. We did mostly the high, only the one day on low routes when weather was clagged in rain and windy, so wouldn't have missed much.
Higher routes aren't always the toughest or longest, often their shorter. Not not on the GR20, but worth taking a day out to do from Haute Asco, is Monte Cinto the highest mountain in Corsica.
Well... Paddy is just back from a longer route than the GR20... but also a considerably easier route than the GR20.
Gary... It's entirely your choice how you organise your trek along the GR20. Take, as an example, the way I present the first two days. The 'classic' GR20 runs from Calenzana, straight uphill to Piobbu. The next day, it crosses a high and rugged col before dropping down to Carozzu. Now, if there was a powerful thunderstorm on either of those days, it would be pretty stupid to stay so high. So, I give alternative lower routes just so that people can keep moving in comparative safety. The low-level routes, on this stretch, are not actually part of the GR20. On other parts of the GR20, such as from Petra Piana to Onda, both the high and low-level routes are equally part of the GR20. As far as I'm concerned in that case, the high-level route is probably easier than the low-level route, but the low-level route offers a most welcome bergerie doing a full-blown meals service! Again, it's your choice what to do with your route choice. I just present the options for you to consider. Towards the end of the GR20, there's the 'Alpine Variant', which in my estimation is probably no more difficult than the low-level 'official' GR20, but is much more dramatic, providing you get the views. Anyone could argue that a high-level route is pretty pointless if you don't get the views, and I would agree wholeheartedly, having sample the stretch from Manganu to Petra Piana in dense clag, as well as crystal-clear conditions. There's simply no argument... in fine weather you should stay high... but it's still your choice! My inclusion of extra mountain ascents are of course entirely optional. They're all close to the route and offer exciting half-day detours, bearing in mind you may never be so close to them again for the rest of your life. I also give a number of links with nearby villages, partly because it offers the chance to meet native Corsicans properly, but also because they provide 'soft options' if anyone has had enough of the rough stuff on the 'classic' GR20. These spur routes aren't part of the GR20, but they are included if you want them. They also allow people who are short of time the opportunity to make the best possible use of the GR20 before they really need to bail out and catch a bus. I met several people who could only spare a week on the GR20, and simply because they didn't have the necessary info, they were leaving the route after only three days because they didn't think they'd be able to bail out easily any further along the route. All they needed was a bit of information about services just off-route, and any of them could have doubled their time on the GR20. So, as far as my book goes, it exists only to give you the hard info you need to make an informed choice about what to do with your time on the GR20.
Back in the late 1970s, I was the leader of a walk on the GR20 organized by Waymark Holidays. In those days, guides for Waymark Holidays were not paid but were rewarded with a 'free' holiday. Anyone who has guided a trip knows that if the the job is done professionally, then it can, depending on the clients, be an enjoyable experience, but it certainly is not a holiday and should never be regarded as such.
I had never walked the route before but the company supplied me with maps and previous leaders' reports. I was told that it never rained in Corsica during the summer months so tents were not necessary. Wrong! We had three days' of rain and had to retreat to refuges for shelter. In those days the route was relatively undeveloped so my experiences, apart from the weather, are not germane; Paddy knows far more about the GR20 than I do.
I was also told that stoves were not necessary and that we should cook on open fires. I discovered, to my dismay, that open fires were forbidden and my group got disapproving comments from the other, relatively few walkers, that we met. Fortunately, we never encountered rangers or others in authority.
So, if you plan to camp wild, be sure take a tent and a stove.
I assume that previous leader's reports would have mentioned the fact that open fires were forbidden so why didn't Waymark inform you of this ?
As camping wild is illegal and anybody caught will be thrown off the island - should we as a forum with a reputation to retain - even be suggesting it ?
I understand that apart from causing fires , another reason for the prohibition of camping is so that it is easy to herd people up if there is such a fire. I assume therefore that bivvying wild overnight without stove or fire is also classified as camping. Can anybody confirm this please ?
Yep - on the GR20 it doesn't matter whether you 'camp' or 'bivvy' - it's all the same and all forbidden. Having said that, I passed a sign forbidding the riding of horses, camping, lighting fires and fishing, only to reach a lake to find fishermen had tethered their horses, lit fires and pitched their tents! They took the view, as all good Corsicans would, that the laws were made by the French and therefore it was only right and proper to break them! If I was a 'ranger', I wouldn't have argued the toss with those guys either, since like all good Corsicans they were toting an array of weapons!
Then again... a 'proper' wild camper will be able to pitch quite happily in lots of places, in the sure and certain knowledge that no-one will ever find them, nor will anyone even realise, once they've departed, that they were ever there in the first place. In other words, if you have the necessary 'stealth' skills, you can break the law with impunity!
My advice to anyone walking the GR20 is to take a really lightweight tent, even if you plan on staying in the refuges. At quiet times, you'll get into the refuges most of the time, but at busy times you won't have a hope. There's no point lugging a heavyweight tent, because the nature of the terrain just makes that an additional burden. Carrying a stove isn't strictly necessary, but if you don't have one, then you are left with three options... eating cold food... possibly being stuck in a queue for the outside stoves at the refuges... or paying a few euros for the evening meals provided by the refuge staff. Actually, some of the refuges will cook you a meal at whatever time you arrive, but there's always a set menu in the evening, and to be quite honest, at less than 10 euros for three courses, it seems daft to lug a stove, pots and pans and all the rest.
The only 'wild' camp I'm aware of on the GR20 is around the site of the former refuge at Pedinieddi. The refuge is about 600m below the summit of Monte Alcudina (or Incudine if you prefer), and got blasted to smithereens in a lightning strike. As a result, it's a bit of a scruffy pitch and some people think it's OK to leave heaps of rubbish there, and the area is a bit of a toilet and you have to hope that no-one poops in the only water supply!
Hugh - I hope you made some very strong points to Waymark about the nature of the information they supplied to you. I've come across several outfits claiming to offer guided walks along the GR20, but I've yet to discover a single outfit that tells the whole truth. Some of them, if the brutal truth be told, barely cover more than a couple of days on the trail, and fob off their clients with long detours off-route. Even those who cover most of the route tend to omit the final stretch from Bavella to Conca, wrongly informing their clients that it's 'boring' or 'pointless'.
Peter: You have to bear in mind that I led that particular trip some 35 years ago when the GR20 was not yet a popular route and things were very different. I was instructed by Waymark to take neither a stove nor a tent and to camp wild. Perhaps the regulations about camping were not then in force. I seem to remember that we passed a number of tents. None of the refuges had a guardien so although there were cooking facilities there was nobody to provide meals. We bought cheeses from bergeries and midway through the trip I had to travel some distance by taxi to buy supplies. I never saw a ranger and doubt whether there were any.
Paddy: Yes, I did complain to Waymark in my reports on the trip. I cannot now remember whether the company responded.
And yes, we did walk the whole route except for the last few miles. This was because we were delayed by the weather and had to catch a bus into Ajaccio in order to make our flight home.
To be fair to Waymark, I led a number of their trips in the seventies and, by the standards of the day, they were a good outfit. I learnt my trade as a guide the hard way from them. Remember, too, that in those days there were relatively few companies offering walking trips and I cannot recall any that could be described as rip-off merchants.
Agree with the recommendation re: lightweight tent just in case. We took the outer of my TN Laser Comp, and though we never needed it there were a couple of times when we arrived to a near full refuge as we doubled a couple of stages.
Though I suppose it really depends when you go, we went in mid Sept which is towards the end of main season. Also worth picking some food basics - cheese, chorizo, honey, bread, pasta & sauce etc. so that you can cook your own meals, as the meals in the refuges tend to be quite late.
On my first ever trip to Corsica, in the depths of winter, I tried to reach a refuge and found my way barred, just as darkness was falling, by steep sheets of ice. As I wasn't fully equipped for those conditions I backed out and ended up bivvying beside a bergerie for what turned out to be a very chilly night.
On a later trip, in the summer time, I was heading for the same refuge, but didn't get there until quite late. My excuse was that I'd climbed one of the highest mountains in Corsica in the morning, then decided to trek a high-level alternative to reach the refuge. As this was one of the smaller refuges, and it was a weekend, it was full to bursting long before I got there. Someone even slept on the kitchen table that night! The camping spots were all very rough and there wasn't a single level space left, so I joined two English guys and a German and slept on the wooden decking in front of the refuge. It was a windy night, but nothing like as cold as a the still winter night from my previous visit.
Last time I passed the same refuge, I found it was still full of people, but on that occasion I combined two days into one and completely leap-frogged the place to stay at the next refuge. I then had a 'day off' to climb a mountain! I discovered that they don't like you leaving your tent up throughout the day while you go and climb mountains, but the guardian very kindly suggested I left all my excess gear in the refuge kitchen while I climbed the mountain with a bare minimum of stuff.
well actually have been for some time.....i do not need to ask any more irritating questions anymore...because i know it all...hey hey...
phew - where to start without writting a book.
Paddy, i took your book, and the thing that is so wrong about it is that it implies that the route is easy, or parts are easy-ish... i am guessing you do this to sell more, it is very informative and gives you the info for what you need, but many people will read it and think they can do the route based on its description alone....wrong. I have for years hated guide books written for normal people by fit hikers, theres no honesty in them.
That route is a son of a B*tch...it is tough ill say it again, its very tough....very tough painfully tough, and if your not very fit, you aint gonna finish it period. I started with 8 people and met a few more on route, i finished with 4....the rest slipped away - beacuse they could not handle it, oh yeh they had good reasons, but thats the bottom line.
I was carrying 18Kg in total....and i am fit, fitter now of course...we had alot of snow, and all weather types were experienced from serious wind and rain, to white outs to heavy and dangerous snow, as well as a few days of sun....this route will test you and most will not finish....
i doubled twice in a row meaning 18 miles on one day then 18 miles again then 10 the next day etc etc...
there were tears in the cirque from others taking on too much...someone died, a few slipped down the snow...(just injured) it was tough for some....we got lost in the snow above the lakes, in a white out in deep snow, the cloud lifted though and we were offered a veiw to die for, cameras came out and the sun shined through the clouds breifly to show us the way, we then realised that the snow we were mucking about on was deadly, one slip see ya....i was in trainers and walked with wet feet for three days.
the refuges are pricey, you must eat what the french eat....uts cheaper and better for you, i did not have a cooker and did not need one, the refuge food is fine and they give big portions, do learn some french though...even the basics...i made french freinds and i needed them....i had a tent and a bivvy, we had no probs, on the southern part we called them southern softies as they took all the spaces up and would not vacat until the weather was just right therefore blocking up the system....stay one night move on system...regardless of the weather.
maganu - interesting holding double its normal numbers as the weather was that bad and wet, the biggest and smelliest male slumber party you can imagine, i was lucky i slept next to the cutest of french cuties...in the morning 8 went up 40 went down and gave up...i went up.
The southern part is still tough, it is just as tough as the north, it never gets easy its a b*stard of a route to the final step....bavella is an awesomecampsite probably the most stunning in the world but when the wind gets up hold onto your hat...
cold showers, i hate em, and they used to stand outside when i showered to laugh at the swearing....still hate them, but you do feel amazing after youve had one, none have lights so negotiation some times is interesting.
Gary - "easy" is relative - and I never said the GR20 was a stroll in the park. Still, you survived, and everyone in your pictures was smiling, so it can't have been that bad. You had a lot of snow and cloud, and I reckon 18kg is a bit heavy for a pack. Do you think I should have scared you off instead, so that you would never have gone there in the first place? Congratulations on the video, which is the best I've seen of the GR20, and you got some of the best pictures I've ever seen of the Cirque de la Solitude.
Yes, it's a tough walk but you dd nothing to make it easier for yourself by carrying an 18kg pack and wearing trainers. Also, I suspect that you went too early in the season. Many years ago, I went in July or August and there was no snow.
I think it's a little unfair to blame Paddy for your own mistakes.
I'd be keen to hear what they're charging this year for things like a square meal, or by what factor foodstuffs on sale in the refuges differ from supermarket prices. For that matter, what are they charging for a refuge overnight and a pitch for a tent this year? The PNRC authorities never tell me about overnight prices when I ask them, so I'm always waiting for someone to tell me after they've been over there.
knew id get a response...heh heh....Paddy im not blaming you for anything the bottom line is i had an awesome expereince never to be forgotten and have made some great freinds who have already invited me over to see them. its all good, but i knew i could handle it, i did my research and knew how bad it could get, others with me on route with your book and similer books.....felt it was much harder and mis represented....and hence did not finish....and struggled....they were with out doubt out of their comfort zone... thats all.
shoes, i had gortex North face pro hike shoes, they were without doubt the best footwear for this route and me personally, but with 3 days of rain and deep snow, they took a hammering...but in the end were the best shoes, i would have hated my more cumbersome 4 season boots.....i would wear the same again and the veiws on shoes over boots were mixed. i am very strong at my ankles, and like the freedom and flexibility they offer on that terrain.....so thats that.
18K thats including the 3 litres of water i always carried....so easy for me, others had more...they suffered.
Paddy i love photography im not any kind of pro, i just like it and always try to get unusual angles....its proof for me ive been somewhere....but i do like it. Thanks i will be putting another video for the south soon i will post here when its done...it will be funny as i explain in no uncertain terms what i thought of it half way...ha ha it makes me laugh...
Refuges in the park were 10 Euros, camping all over was 4 Euros or free (at the hotel places).
I found that western type foods, mars marathon etc...were triple the UK price, and its annoying as the refuges use the cheapest Super U bread etc and you know what its cost...but theres nothing you can do.
The best as you said was to do as the french do, buy bread, buy the honey sackets, but the sardines and fish tins, buy the nisciose salads in a tin for lunch, buy saussaun, and buy cheese, its all to my surprise delicious and better for you than any western high carb quick fix, but i did take my gels and powder sachets used for running marathons as they are super light and replace the salts...
i loved the refuge food, and the portions, all meats and lentil soups and casserols, pasta dishes...i loved em all, costs were about 10 Euros for the food, but because your buying a beer or a coke or a sweet as well, most of the time you will spend 20 to 25 Euros at each refuge, but thats me, i didnt hold back on supplying my stomach im a big lad, and made sure i ate well at any cost....others may not be as much of a ganet.
but Paddy, what memories i have, whats sights i have seen, and what friends i have made, waht weather i have felt, what flowers and forests i have seen, as well as the summits afar... i was also tested, and at a few key points was also a tad concerned that if i had lost my footing it was good bye.... so all in all an awesoem trip.....but its hard very hard...and should not underanycircumstances be regarded as other wise.
If you want to use any of my pictures for your next copy then id be over the moon tolet to us them for free as long as my name is on it and i get a free copy, all pics were taken at 10 million pixel resolution. let me know...that would be so cool for me.
oh also we still went swimming in the pools in the rain....it was awesome but my god that was cold.
the route is hard when done all at once, each individual stage is fine, but as the days increase and the trek stays tough the effects build up, hence each day gets harder and harder, your up early, your not eating your own food, and your off again in all weathers to take on the hill, i did not get the sunny trek that people expect, sunburn was not an issue for me...
but this in hindsight made all the pictures more dramatic, more moody, the cloud layers etc...on a hot blue basking sunny day, the pictures would have less impact, theyd look more bland.
i may go back with my other half, and do sections of choice, because i want to spend a day or two just swimming in the pools at certain points just for the fun of it.
doing half is fine, but the whole route takes alot more out of you, pickpocketing the best bits or just doing the north is crazy as the 3 of the best parts are in the south Bavella is to die for, the Alpine route anyway...and the summit nearthe end is lush....we had sun that day .... we fell asleep on the summit...
Also we visited Porto vecchio and Bonofactio....they were awesome places...we loved em...the marinas etc...i really recomend you staying at one of these places after your success.
... I think he wanted to be on his own!
