Macsen, my comments do seem contradictory. I deal with disputes between different parties when certain methods of payment have been used. I'm not fully versed on sales of goods act etc.
Salopianman, shame you're not pursuing this. Why not just knock up a letter to trading standards and copy in the shop. Can't hurt too much. I know its a pain in the rear but it can't take any longer than setting up a sale on ebay.
You really should write them a letter telling them that if they don't offer either a complete refund or an exchange within 28 days then you'll take them to the Small Claims Court.
It really isn't that much of a hassle. Do you want to let them get away with screwing you like this? Most people just walk away in this situation, so it's often a shock for a retailer to realise that they're not going to be allowed to get away with it. Often the shock of receiving the letter is enough for them to take the complaint seriously for the first time, and bear in mind that they don't know that you may decide not to take it further.
If you do write to them, include the things I mentioned in my email earlier i.e. you asked for advice, you were given it, you queried it, you were told it was definitely right and so - in reliance upon them - you accepted it. Now you've wasted your money.
I hate seeing people get away with this sort of thing :(
Nice link Scrambler - apparently they're "always happy to offer help and advice in any way we can and believe that one of the things that makes Spike special is the personal touch and customer service second to none."
if your shoe size is norm a 10 then i agree that 10.5 would norm be the lengh.however not seeing the feet nor asking the questions to find out that this is the right boot for you ican only say that some people do have a problem with the mfs system .when you say you have tried insoles have you tried an heel lift?or as i do two insoles (for me two gel types). someimes the rolling toe or lack of can be a problem, what boot have you just replaced and why did you choose the meindl boot?? p.s. just had a few ciders !! michx
I am afraid his comment about making a profit out of the sale, if I was to buy another pair of boots off him, has kind of hit a nerve, there is nowt like kicking a man when he is down is there. I know business is business, but what happened to keeping your customers happy, I worked it out today, in 15 months I have spent over £350 in Spike outdoor. I am a quiet man, who leads a quiet life, I don’t ask for nothing in this world, my 1 passion is walking, I saved bloody hard for my boots, now they sit there & I can’t wear them. I don’t want to have volume adjusters put into them, or get heel pads put into them; I want them to fit as they should. But I am now starting to think its my fault, maybe I should have asked to try a size 10, & not just take the advice I was given.
On [insert date] I visited your shop to buy a pair of walking boots. My feet were measured by your assistant and I was advised that I needed a size 10.5B. I explained that I normally take a size 10, but the assistant told me that 10.5B was correct and that the MFS would adjust and mould around my ankles.
I tried on a size 10.5B in Meindl Borneos. They didn't feel right and I told the assistant, but [he/she] told me again that the MFS would simply take some time to adjust to my feet, and that 10.5B was the right size.
The assistant held [himself/herself] out as an expert in boot fitting, and in reliance upon the advice [he/she] gave me I bought the Meindls in size 10.5B. However, as soon as I wore them on [DATE] it became obvious that they were too big for my feet. They were extremely uncomfortable, and I developed blisters on my heels, the bottom of my feet and my toes.
Although I have now returned to your shop twice (first on [FIRST DATE] and then on [SECOND DATE]) to explain the situation, you have refused to accept responsibility for your assistant's negligent advice and have refused to offer me either a refund or an exchange. Instead you offered to sell me volume adjusters, volume reducers or heel lifts, and as an alternative you suggested that I could sell the boots on Ebay.
This is not acceptable, and I am writing now to give you notice that if you do not either refund my money or offer to exchange the boots for a pair of Meindl Borneos in the correct size within 28 days then I will take you to the Small Claims Court to recover my money.
Finally, I have spent over £350 in your shop over the last 15 months, and I am both surprised and extremely disappointed by the way in which you have dealt with this situation. I have saved to buy this pair of boots, and I can not afford to lose my money as a result of poor advice given to me by your sales staff.
... and it get's to the point of is it worth the hassle!
But as they say an unhappy customer tells 20 others - or in this case probably a lot more.
Very short sighted of them - but I would buy another pair from someone else - probably mail order - make sure you try them on at home and be 100% before you take them outdoors.
I did try them on at home also, I wore them around the house all bloody day, they felt fine, but in the real world, where we have rocks, hills, uneven ground places which don’t have carpet, they unleashed there dark secret..”THEY WERE TOO BIG”. While I sit and write this I now also remember him telling me he has had this issue before with other customers. I have never been able to afford leather boots, so when I tried them on yes they felt strange, my Karrimor KSB boots are like trainers, I assumed all leather boots felt like diving boots from new.
And finally, if you do write (and please do), send the letter by Special Delivery, not Signed For (used to be Recorded). That way you can be sure that they'll receive it the next day, and you can also be sure that you'll have proof of delivery. They may even take it as an indication that you mean business.
Well I have been on the phone to Trading standards, and they have advised me, I am on a road to nowhere, due to the fact that advice is just that, its not legally binding, & you don’t have to take it. If you take someone’s advice, you are making the choice to take it, you are not being forced to take it, so you are making the choice for yourself, which means the retailer is at no fault. But i am not going to be wearing boots which have had adjusters,heel lifts in so I am selling them on Ebay..SO ALL LET THIS BE A LESSON TO US ALL...
Final Note: spike outdoors should take a note from Rab, coz there customer service was fantastic, when my Bivi bag was faulty they didn't ask questions, or try to get out of it, they told me Sorry for the bad product. we will replace ASAP.
Interesting that Trading Standards should say that advice can be taken or left and that does not affect either party after sale- if that were always the case then a lot of insurance companies have been giving away money needlessly (which I suspect they don't like to do).
Obviously insurance is a regulated industry so its different, however my point is I'd be surprised if you had no comeback if both parties accept that ADVICE was given. However I suspect in this case advice, in a legalistic sense, probably wasn't given - I doubt there is a duty of care in shoe fitting.
Still I'd write a letter to Meindl telling them how one of the retailers they supply do not fit their product properly. Might not do much but I have had good respsonse from Meindl before and perhaps if there have been previous complaints they may stop supplying them.
Well I will be avoiding Spike Outdoors then- clearly they can't train their staff as I have the same boot and the MFS have very little effect on the actual size of the boot (although I love it).
The only thing I could suggest is go above the manager's head, but if its not a chain then I suppose there is no above the manager/owner.
"The Spike team, Paul and Rich will, as usual, provide the high standards of personal service and sound advice that comes from many years experience in the outdoors.
See you on the hill!"
Judging from the above thread Salopianman they'd better not see you on the hill!
And as they said in Animal House- "Don't get mad, get even"
I don't blame the chaps at spike, coz these things do happen, i suppose i expected a better result then this. all i want is my boots to fit as they should.
My name is Rich Beddoes. I am the co-owner, with Paul Wynn, of Spike and would like to respond to the comments regarding the sale of a pair of Meindl Borneos to Salopianman. Firstly, as a small independent outdoor shop run by two active outdoor enthusiasts, we try very hard to offer the best advice and service we can to our customers. In fact, because we do take time with customers during boot fitting (probably the most important purchase we walkers and mountaineers make) we have not encountered an accusation of mis-selling before in the three years that we have been in business. The first time I became aware of Salopianman’s problem was at 13.35 on Saturday 30.9.06 when we received the following email;
Hi, I purchased a pair of Meindl Borneo Pro MFS, about 3 weeks ago, my feet were measured great service from yourselves, BUT now the leather has given a bit the boots are way to big, my feet move up & down the boot, causing my feet to become blistered, I have purchased insoles, socks, but still no good, my dilemma now is I have a pair of 3 week old boots, which cost £125, only wore once, which I cannot use.. Any ideas on a way I can either return them, or get a refund. I know it’s not your fault, but I was hoping some sort of returns policy may be to help me. In no way do I blame you, but I thought you may be able to help. As I do buy 99% of my kit from you.
I replied to this just over an hour later with the following email:
I'm sorry to hear that. If you can get into the shop we'll see what we can do with the boots-sometimes there is a relatively simple solution eg.volume reducers. As regards refunds etc. I know for a fact that there is no possibility that the manufacturers will accept them as a return which means we won't be able to refund you. If you can call in with the boots we'll see what other options we have.
As there was no suggestion of poor service or mis-selling I could only conclude that Salopianman may have made an error of judgment in the purchase. As always with a customer who has an issue that needs addressing, I suggested that he comes, if possible, to the shop with the boots to see if we can find a solution.
It then seems that Salopianman chose immediately to air his views on the forum and the rest, as they say, is history. There are various misunderstandings floating about in the forum. There is little point in trying to address all of them in detail but I would like to give an overview on the boot fitting process. As with all customers I looked at Salopianman’s feet (considering width, volume, any proportions or shape outside the norm) and took heel-toe, width and heel-to-metatarsal phelangeal joint measurements and considered boot brands and models. None of the observations or measurements suggested that the Borneo would be unsuitable. The size of boots (and shapes of lasts) varies by manufacturer and model so the measurements give us guidance on width; foot elongation and the correlation of the boot’s flex point to that of the foot. I do follow certain routines when fitting so that I know that we’ve covered all aspects of boot usage and fit. This includes, of course, discussion on other boots and sizes. Unfortunately, neither of us can see into the boots so there has to be a point at which the customer decides whether the boots fit them or not. If not then the quest continues. This is what we do and how we make our living as responsible and honest retailers.
My colleague Paul spoke to Salopianman on 2.10.06 and again suggested he visit the shop with the boots to see if a fit solution could be found and if that wasn’t possible that we supply a different size at cost. We try very hard to ensure that our customers are happy and so have today offered Salopianman a free pair of Meindl Borneos in size 10.
The above is a foreshortened version due to the technical limitations of the forum. If you wish to discuss this case further or if I can offer any advice from a retailer's point of view please feel free to contact me by phone (my typing is too slow for email-sorry) on 01743 364455.
Its very commendable that you have taken the time to come on here to put your side forward.
Having followed this episode from the beginning and being one of the posters who originally suggested the excellent meindl borneos, I'm glad to see that there's been a happy ending.
However, I wonder wether you would have extended such generousity if Salopianman hadn't "chose immediately to air his views on the forum". I suspect not and he would probably have been persauded to buy additional unnecessary products (volume adjusters etc).
Spike are clearly not at fault here from a trading standards point of view but sometimes it's necessary for a retailer to bite the bullet where a regular customer is concerned. The cost of this episode has probably actually cost you no more than £65 but potentially hundreds in lost sales from forum readers who now see Spike as just another business among some excellent competition.
thanks for those comments-we, like many retailers bite the bullet frequently! All I have asked is that Salopianman visits the shop with the boots. Neither he nor I believe that I mis-sold him the boots or gave bad advice. The possibility of adjusting fit (I made no mention of charging for volume adjusters) is a very real one. I think retailers should be given an opportunity to fine tune fit for customers and this really does work in most cases. Simply to air grievances on forums before a retailer has even seen the product can invite negative comments based on very little evidence. I hope the world isn't such a cynical place that a gesture of goodwill can't be taken for just that.
