Anybody know what Classic boat pay for a photo on their website, and Yachting World pay for in the magazine?

John, for the magazine, go to a photo agency like Alamy and find a similar photie with a "licenced" tag to it. Pretend to calculate the price; you need to know stuff like size of print, inside/inner front page/cover etc and circulation numbers and area of circulation... ad nauseum. It'll give you a quote. Then deduct 30%-50% for agency fees. Then deduct another 30% for income tax and NI and the slim pickings that are left is what you would have got for it. It won't be much.

JH, best disguising yourself on the forums, Paddy does this by making himself look older than in real life and hiding under that hat. In real life he looks about 20 years younger, seriously! Don't disguise myself very well although I'm of that nature really I have nothing to hide and say what I think and have no regrets so never bothers me being on anything or anywhere.

I have several photographs being used around Britain and also in Northern Ireland for a few various things. Most people ask and I don't charge especially for educational things and outdoor nature related use. I've luckilly never had any bother with people not wanting to appear on my web pages as yet but I must admit I have often wondered wether I should get permission before putting peoples faces up on the web. I know atleast one member on this thread currently has her beautiful face on my site.

BG, you could do with finding out if its okay to quote AW instead of just copying him. Maybe that would change things slightly, I don't know?

Hi Jamie

Good idea, but it's not quotes that I want to use. I was thinking primarily of the maps, but a few of his "drawn from a photo" pics would be useful - whenever I can, I try to get the same shot with my camera, and I thought that a "side-by-side" comparison of drawing and photo would be of (probably minor) interest.

Its something I'm surprised they've never done officially before actually comparing his great drawings with real photos in some sort of book.

I'm claiming copyright to that idea (see my previous post above).

Jamie: Wainwright often used his own photographs as a basis for his drawings. Some can be found in the two FellWanderer books.

Ah I never realised, I wondered how his pen drawings never got smudged by rain!

"John, for the magazine, go to a photo agency like Alamy..............the slim pickings that are left is what you would have got for it. It won't be much.".......Ninja

Thanks, probably wouldn't have been worth the time spent, which is pretty much what I thought at the time. Plus it's quite flattering to have your creations ripped off.

"I have nothing to hide and say what I think and have no regrets so never bothers me being on anything or anywhere.".......Jamie

The trouble with selected quotes from the forum being printed, was that not having the complete thread, the quotes could be out of context and appear to have a slightly different meaning.

Frances Lincoln Publishers have just replied, I'll paste it in here just in case it's of any help to anybody else:

Thank you for your email. The contents of the Lakeland Fells guides are indeed subject to copyright. Copyright is held by the Estate of A. Wainwright as follows:

The Eastern Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1955
The Far Eastern Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1957
The Central Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1958
The Southern Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1960
The Northern Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1962
The North Western Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1964
The Western Fells: Copyright © The Estate of A. Wainwright 1966

Whilst we are happy for you to store the images or maps for personal use on your laptop, I'm afraid we can't grant permission for them to appear on any website.

Kind regards,
Nicki Davis
Permissions

JH - I'm not saying that you shouldn't chase it up - people should not be allowed to rip artists off that way, just that it would only be about £50 nett so you can't retire on it. But do not get them get away with copyright theft!

Interesting BG...

I'm surprised she didn't say anything about purchasing a licence to use them.

The BBC are publishing a book about Wainwright on June 7th (to accompany the recent TV series, all part of the 100 year anniversary of his birth). I contributed a lot of the photos that will appear in the book, and during the process I was sent an electronic copy of the book (to confirm captions were correct etc.).

Anyway, the book features some reproductions of Wainwright's Pictorial guides (photos of the books, direct repros of certain pages, etc.), so I'm presuming the BBC paid for a licence to use them. I would have thought 'Nicki' would have mentioned the option of giving them some cash to use them in her reply to you (regardless of whether paying is something you intend to do).

BG - I wonder if it's worth doing a mock-up of what you suggest, converting it to a pdf, and emailing it to Frances Lincoln. Sounds to me like you're aiming to 'review' Wainwright's work and assess its artistic merit alongside a photograph, possibly with comments of your own appended. I would have thought that wouldn't be a problem, so long as you included an acknowledgement of the source and maybe a handy link to their website.

There is a history of tight copyrght control of the Wainwright books going back to the first publisher, Westmorland Gazette. I was commissioned by a major publisher to write a guidebook to the Pennine Way (it was never published) and somehow Westmorland Gazette got wind of it and I received a fierce letter warning me not to infringe Wainwright's copyright.

If history is any guide, I don't rate your chances too high, BG. Nevertheless, Paddy's approach is worth a try.

BG - if you want to show pen-and-ink sketches and how they shape up to photographs, can I suggest that you contact Mark Richards? I'm sure Mark would be happy to supply you with both a sketch and a photo in return for a link. Mark knew Wainwright very well, and often walked with the old fella, although you won't find many written references to the fact. However, if you grab a copy of Outlying Fells, AWs own hand records that Mark was out with him on 10th March 1973. (See page 228 of the book)

Jamie
"Its something I'm surprised they've never done officially before actually comparing his great drawings with real photos in some sort of book"

I seem to recall I've already seen something along these lines in the AW coffee table books done with his photographer (name escapes me!)in the 80s?

Derry Brabbs. Would you believe the publishers picked him by working alphabetically through "Photographers" in the Yellow Pages, and I believe he was the second person they called?

Well they certainly didn't pick him on photographic merit... Ouch!

So, Michael, when are you "deed-polling" your surname? Anything to get to the front of the queue!

"Michael Aardvark" should do it, but "Michael Aaaarjimlaaad" has a certain ring to it.

:-)

"I would have thought 'Nicki' would have mentioned the option of giving them some cash to use them in her reply to you (regardless of whether paying is something you intend to do).".......Michael S

I guess the option doesn't exist unless you've got the money, have a reputation for using such material sympathetically, and the deal is done in such a way that the Wainright estate are able to maintain some control over the materials use. I think the BBC fit's that bill, and I've no doubt Bearded Git (Second-Class Sub-Human, shot with sh*t) does too, but it's a slippery slope to go down if you start letting every body whose shot with sh*t use it.

Memoirs of a Fellwanderer has quite a few side by side (actually top by bottom) comparisons of Wainwright's drawings with his original photographs.

Surely if you did the picture against the photograph and compared the two it would qualify as criticism and be fair use, obviously tying it in with details about the walk might invalidate this argument.