Thanks Frum, LOL.

The picture at the bottom of the page looks like a scene from a b-grade zombie movie!! 

Craig,

from you description of intended uses, I wouldn't be too hasty about writing off down. I have both down and synthetic filled jackets. The Primaloft stuff is great and much warmer than other synthetic options - notably fleece. But they aren't up there on decent down for weight and pack size. If you only need it for relatively controlled conditions (keeping warm around camp and worn under your waterproof for stops on a hill) then there's no reason why you shouldn't have every success with down. I used a Rab Glacier Active for many years, as does my father, and they have served for winter walking in the Scottish Highlands without either of us managing to impair them by getting them badly wet.

The advantage of synthetics comes if you are using them in conditions when you can't readily keep them dry. The belay jacket concept is for warmth you can throw on over your waterproof and it must therefore be able to tolerate damp from inside and out. I have a Keela Belay Jacket for this and it serves very well. I also have a Berghaus Infinity Light Gilet which is lighter and less cosy but still an excellent piece of kit.

But for pure warmth to weight of down with a bit of added waterproofing and a discount price, it would be hard to beat the PHD Minimus Goretex. Personally, I'd do without the Goretex outer and use a waterproof that was big enough to go over the top for added versatility and reduced weight.

Just to add choices, have a look at the Berhaus Infinty jacket (not the Lite). This always seem to be missing from tests and round-ups but is a well made and warm piece of kit.

Look here

or

here -(sml /x-Lge)

Here (sm /Med)

Mostly seems to be the black /silver in whatever sizes folk have left. Relatively 'unknown' jacket and worth a try on.

Good luck

 Berhaus Infinty jacket

Tried one on in size small and a lovely jacket Craig and the shop owner said that its the warmest jacket that he stocks hard to beat.he also offered me a special price on it but it just didnt fit so i didnt ask how muchbut tried hard to make it fit lol.so then went for the Haglofs.

Choices choices choices

Cheers Mike, Diddy. I have a couple of Berghaus fleeces and so I know their gear fits me OK. Choices indeed - this is going to be harder than I expected!!

Diddy - out of interest, how does the fit of the Haglofs differ from Berghaus? I'm just wondering in case I decide to opt for a Haglofs. I find Berghaus sizing is fairly generous and so if Haglofs is a more "technical" fit then that may suit me better.

Thanks again guys. 

John

Thanks for your comments. I must admit down was the first  option I thought of when thinking about what I'd be using the jacket for. As you say, it would mostly be used in relatively controlled conditions and so would be unlikely to ever get wet. Some articles I've read claim that modern synthetics are closing the gap with regards to warmth/weight and packability. I can't speak from personal experience though but I suspect down still has the edge in all aspects except performance when wet, and in proce of course!!

I'm still considering down and I've been very tempted by the Gore-Tex PHD Minimus which is at a very good price currently - their sale ends today I think (I can't wait to try the Minim 500 sleeping bag I've recently ordered from them too!) There are also some very good deals elsewhere such as the Rab Neutrino Endurance for £135 or the Rab Pro Active for only £80. But I'm currently thinking that perhaps a synthetic might be the better/safer option to go with initially and then consider a down jacket later, depending on how the synthetic performs for my needs.

In absolute insulation for weight & bulk, even average quality down is still above the best synthetics. Unfortunately they use different means to measure loft. I found a Berghaus Infinity Extreme Jacket (orange) in TKMaxx once but unfortunately it was miles too big. It was a true belay jacket for mountain use, but still seemed much heavier and bulkier than a decent down jacket. For me, the only reason to buy synthetic is if you anticipate getting it wet. If your budget is 150, using the discount outlets you could probably get one of each!

John

Worth considering the true use of the belay jacket concept. It presupposes that you throw it on OVER everything else including waterproofs etc. So although it conflcts with packed size, a slightly more generous size/cut is not necesarily a negative.

Mike

Hi All

First of all, thanks very much to all for your valuable contributions. It certainly helped me and I learned a few technical things about various fabrics and insulation along the way. I've ordered a Rab Generator jacket. Pertex Quantum inner and outer, with 100g Primaloft 1 in the body and 60g in the arms. And it weighs less than 400g.

Diddy - I was very close to getting that Haglofs, but I got a very good deal on the Rab and just couldn't pass it up at the price.

John - thank you for telling me what I wanted to hear ie. get one of each! I suspect that's what will happen.

Now bring on the cold weather

Probably a bit late in this discussion but I kep with my tried and tested Buffalo Belay jacket.

Nice and toasty warm. Hard wearing shell. Simple style with a removable hood.

Just an option for s simple Belay jacket. 

hey all

been looking at some PHD jackets, they look pretty snazzy and andy kirkpatrick and the other guy with glasses wear them, (got to mean something good). They might be a little over £150, but they really do look nice.
They're made to order in the UK as well I think, so that must be good.

Check out the website.....

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/index.php

And Andy Kirkpatrick's thing on belay jackets.

http://www.psychovertical.com/?belayjacket

enjoy!!
sam

Hi Diddy. I looked at the Alpkit site and it said they didn't have any Fantoms and that they were discontinued. They said:

"we have been working on a new Filo that will feature  a detachable hood, a choice of 6 colours and a modified pattern (more like the Fantom). These will be available this autumn."

I see from another thread that you managed to get hold of a medium. I would have needed a size small. I was so close to getting that Haglofs you sent me the link to - looks very nice and a real quality jacket, but I got a very good deal on the Rab Generator from One Outdoors. It fits me really well and I'm sure it will be fine for 3 seasons at least. Maybe in winter I'll look for a down jacket. The first test for the Rab is the West Highlands at the end of October (OM Autumn meet). Hope to see you there and looking forward to catching up with the others I met at the August Bank Holiday weekend at Loch Tay.

Hi Craig there website says only extra large but i asked them when they might be getting a medium in and they said they had one or two left so i was made up and order placed and arrived less than 24hrs later.buzzin...

I am trying to go to the October one but hey with the money i spent on gear lateley and im in Scotland at the end of the month, things might be tight..but you never know..

Nice jacket you got by the way..

Mike (Prince)

Your second Infinity link is for Gear-Zone.  Don't touch them with a bargepole, IMHO.  See numerous threads about them here and on UKC.

If there are any ladies after a belay jacket, who happen to be passing Keswick, take a look in Keswick Mountain Sports (no, they don't appear to have a web presence).  They had Sprayway Belay jackets for £50; very good price for a 133g PL1 hooded belay.

^^^ I purchased the above jacket when looking for a belay jacket for a trip to Norway in Febraury. I was originally looking at the Rab Belay jacket at about £140, but came across the Sprayway jacket in a shop in Keswick for £50. It isn't quite as snazzy as the Rab, but it's very warm (same type and weight filling), and I've nearly always opted for this over a North Face Nupste down jacket or a PHD Minimus down vest for that bit of magic insulation we sometimes need to pack, especially when setting off on a multipitch route. For the money, you'd be silly not to really, mine as seen me right in temperatures lower than -30c (not inc windchill) and altitudes over 4000m in the Alps.

PS you would even have enough change to buy a lovely new down jacket too!

Cheers, Tom.  I thought they looked pretty good, and if they'd had men's ones, or even a size 12, I'd have bought myself one.

How does the sizing compare with other brands? I'm tempted by that eBay shop £40 M (I'm usually S, although the Zone 2 I've got is M).

Cap'n P - Gear Zone: Good point well made and fully agreed. Was recommending the goods and not the supplier. Don't seem to be too many about.