Hey Guys. After a few wet experiences now with my eVENT and Jon laughing at me wearing his Paramo, I'm seriously considering getting a Paramo type garment. I have tried on the Aspira and it’s a truly awful fit.
Cioch make made to measure stuff, so the fit issue will not be a problem, and I am prepared to pay for it. There are just a few details I would like to check in respect to their Harta Jacket and was hoping some of you may have some experience with it, or similar Cioch items.
Some points I'm after:
Zips? Water resistant or not, do I need a front storm flap or just make do with rear only?
Drip skirts? Is there a drip skirt and does the pump liner stop before the end of the sleeve to stop water being sucked up?
Hood? Quite important, are their full on hoods good with a helmet and move with the head nicely?
Cords and stuff? Will these face whip me or are they secured nicely?
Durability? I imagine it will be as good as Paramo which is supposedly excellent
Cut? What sort of length cut should I go for? I need to be able to climb rock in it.
Pockets? Are they waterproof, what are they lined with? Are the hand warmer ones in a bad location for pack straps and harnesses?
 
I have e-mail Neil at Cioch to discuss a lot of this, and all the fit related stuff I think I should take his word for it. I just want to get a couple of others opinions on the matter and see what you think/recommend.
 Cheers

can't comment on the more specific specifics, but:

  Zips? Water resistant or not, do I need a front storm flap or just make do with rear only?

You don't need a storm flap at all, but a full double storm flap will keep out almost all water ingress, a single storm flap will keep out most, and just a zip will keep out the worst.  Against which a double is more weight and more faff and more cost, a single a little more weight and faff, and none is the minimum of weight/faff/cost.  Choose your level of compromise...

Water resistant zips are nice, but note that "resistant" is not "proof" and water still gets through, and they cost more. 

Cut? What sort of length cut should I go for? I need to be able to climb rock in it. 

if you're climbing then the shorter the better, though having said taht how much rock climbing and at what level?  I find that rain and rock climbing are not a happy combination so i tend not to climb in waterproofs, and it also accelerates wear considerably.  If you'll be winter climbing that's a different matter, as climbing in waterproofs in winter is completely normal.

 Pockets? Are they waterproof

Outside of highly specialist kit, there ain't no such thing as a waterproof pocket, at least if it's accessed externally.  If it has an outside entrnace it will leak, aside from anything else when you open it up to put things in.

Pete. 

things in the pockets can get damp/wet from sweat passing through the inner and into the pocket and if it's cold enough, condensing. so don't put anything paper in a pocket.

it's not an issue. just if the conditions are right.

 i phoned cioch when i wanted some made to measure trousers with a small adaption they were very helpful and made them very quickly---suggest a phone call

I don't have that particular jacket, but the smock type thing I got from Cioch is first class. It doesn't actually have a name, because they sort of put it together specially for me, using bits of their other jackets.

I've got the "full mountain hood" as they describe it, & it's ideal. Excellent adjustability, movement, vision etc. The cords are good - no whippy issues.

Zips will always be a relative weak point on any jacket. The good folk at Cioch told me that themselves when I was deciding on venting zips or not.

The stuff is not only durable, but of course repairable, which is nice when you're spending a few bob on a made to measure item.  

Enjoy!

Cheers for the advice guys. Really appreciate your experience of the hood Scott.

Did you opt for zip venting or not in the end then? How hot are these jackets, never worn paramo outside a shop before?

Neil has replied sayign the zips are ntowater resistant, jsut standard ones. He also says 'The front zip of the Harta is under 2 storm flaps' so I assume this woudl mean 2 on top. Would this be better then one under and one over? Is this even necessary? Would one behind do the trick do you reckon? I cant imagine the strom flap backing is pump lined is it?

A few months ago while in Skye I went to the Cioch shop (on the Dunvegan Road) and purchased a climbing jacket. They added a couple of inches to the length of the jacket and to the sleeves ( as I am not a climber) and sent it to me by post within a fortnight as ther had a bit order to finish first.

The reason I went there was that a client and I were up Liathach in heavy rain, I got wet in my Berghaus Paclite while she was dry in her Cioch jacket.

My first impressions are that it is a bit bulkier than my normal Goretex jackets. I haven't really encountered any heavy rain recently to see how waterproof it is but in showers and windy conditions I felt quite snug in the jacket.

At the moment I am very happy with the jacket. I just hope it copes well in storms, which from all accounts it should. If so I may even purchase a lightweight summer jacket from them.

I didn't bother with the zip vents, Smeg. What I was after was something a bit lighter than the "full-on" jackets, as I only tended to wear waterproofs when it was really unavoidable, & I thought it would spend a lot of time in the rucksack.

As it's turned out though, I wear it far more than I did when my waterproof was a Goretex one. Even although it's a smock, the fairly deep neck zip and (crucially, I think) the fact that you can roll the sleeves up, means it's hardly ever too warm for me. Most of the year you just need a baselayer below it of course, so that has to get factored in.

Don't know about the storm flap set up, I'm afraid. I think there's just the one on mine, but I've never really paid much attention to it, 'cos I've never got wet.

Scot, have you got the glamaig smock. im thinking of getting the full zip version. whats the material like. is it like paramo, silky feel and look?

The Glamaig is ace! I got the jacket version with full sleeve lining, asked for a single rather than double zip (don't like the faff) and a hanger loop to be added.

I had it sized slightly large to go over a light duvet jacket if needed for winter but the fit is still great without. The sleeves roll up fine and because the fabric is lighter than paramo I decided to do away with the extra weight and complexity of additional venting zips etc.

The hood is superb and probably the best I've tried ( not a climber so don't wear a helmet ) and the weight comes in at 600gm - loads better than a velez and in my opinion much more versatile across a greater range of temperatures. The liner in the jacket is comfortable enough to wear without a baselayer if needs be. I'm now thinking about getting a pair of trousers made in the lighter material and maybe not as baggy as my cascadas. Paramo can learn a lot from the way these folks have engineered such a great, light garment using the nikwax anology fabric system.

I haven't used it in anger yet but everything is there that I have in my viento, without all the extra bagginess, zips and flaps etc so I've every confidence the Glamaig's going to work just as well.

Add to all that really patient, first class customer service and I think you will gather that I'm more than pleased with my fab jacket.

Thanks Cioch!

I've had a Glamaig for a couple of years. It's brilliant

Agree with LJ's comments about the hood - fantastic.

As Jim theorises, it is comfortable across a wide range of temps, especially if worn over a merino base.

I wouldn't bother with either the pit zips or the fully lined arms.  The front zip gives ventialation a plenty. I never notice that the lower arms are unlined (you don't lose much heat from there and, again, a merino base probably helps), and you save a few grams.

Cioch suggest that it is a summer jacket, but I've worn it in winter blizzards and its performs brilliantly. I thought that I might need a micro fleece to keep the unlined lower arms warm, but I haven't needed one so far. As a result, my Paramo Alta II has been relegated to dog walking duties.

Only two suggested modifications I can think of. If you do a lot of backpacking, I would ask Cioch not to include handwarmer pockets.  The zips sit under the hipbelt which can be uncomfortable (I have to have the pockets open when backpacking). Also you might want to specify tethered drawchords for the hood, but I've yet to be whipped in the face so it might not even be an issue.

AJ

Think mine is a large. Yes, it comes up @ 600gms on my scales with the the fully lined sleeves.

I toyed with losing the front and map pockets which would save some weight and Cioch were happy to do this, but decided the front pockets were handy for  drying gloves. They come mostly below the hip belt for me so can still just about use them as handwarmers and the inside map pocket handy for all kinds of things.

I bought it as an autumn, winter, spring jacket and David G confirms his experience in regards to winter. I have a haglofs oz for summer when I would still expect the Cioch to be too warm to wear most of the time. I think, like paramo, it's still a jacket to wear rather than carry but the lower weight and smaller pack size make it more feasible to carry should I encounter an unexpected warm snap. I used it on Thursday and it was fine with a light merino T shirt but it is around the end of it's season about now for me, unless expecting bad weather or heading north or to high altitudes.

Jim - my experience differs on a couple of points.

I tend to use a windshirt and carry my jacket  - I know I will not need a fleece. The unlined sleeves probably save somewhere between 50-100g.  Saying that, once it is on - the Glamaig tends to stay on because it is so comfortble (regardless of the termperature)

I'm also happy to use mine in summer (I presume the unlined lower arms may help).  I walk almost exclusively in Scotland where if it is wet enough for a waterproof,  it is rarely so warm that is is going to be unpleasant. Again, a merino base may help.

David,

I agree the high comfort of the Glamaig will encourage to keep it on and I even find it comfy with no base layer. For Scotland it probably is a more year round jacket, hence my comment about 'unless you're heading north' - I'm mostly in the south.

Good to hear your experiences and look forward to getting lots of use out of this tremendous bit of kit..

Does anyone think that the colour of their jacket would play a big part in the temperature in the spring / summer. i.e black being the best colour for conducting heat, and so probably not the best colour for a spring summer jacket. i like the grey colour in the glamaig but im thinking maybe not the best colour for spring/ summer.

grrrrrrrrrr

I wish you lot would stop going on about the Glamaig.....

I want one!!!  

in BLACK no doubt.

err I have seen the lovely Cioch green - it's a subdued jade colour, and it is FAB.

BUT it's a unisex fit - read "shaped like a man with broad shoulders and slim hips" so I'd need MTM again....