I understand from conversations with SZ that they have 'improved' the cut around the bum & lower back since the models that I am familiar with, but they were the slightly weak link in the SZ armour IMHO. They are pretty good really - in fact excellent for that price - but the shape was never quite right for me. They are fine for walking and running, but as I use them for rowing and climbing too I found that they didn't cope well with bending over at the hip. I think my review was a little harsh (they are probably better than 60% overall) but certainly not as 'ideal' for my body shape as the F1 long and short sleeved T-shirts. Let me know how you get on - perhaps they fixed the builder's cleavage problem!
As for colour... makes no difference in a LongJohn as far as I am concerned. Though if you picked the fluoro yellow, you'll alert fellow hikers when you need to make a call of nature!
I have a couple of the khaki tops and they are fine - at least they don't show the dirt... might be especially useful on a pair of grundies!
The only problem with the khaki is that it shows the damp patches more than the other colours... of course, this means you can see it wicking... but then so can everyone else!
I ordered the F1 longsleeved T, F2 zip T and F2 long johns as my inner layers for skiing. They all arrived in a couple of days. While substandard, the F1 top looked fine except for a little marking around the end of one sleeve. The F2 kit was perfect (except that the mfr says the fabric will be unstable when washed). I liked the F2 zip T especially.
The try out was done last night at the dry (HoHo...) ski slope high on the North side of Pendle Hill in Lancashire. A severe weather warning for the local area had been given on the radio as I set out.
Not much to say about the F1 T as it just did it's job. I have to say that even with the layers of F1 T, F2 T and Paramo Velez smock, my arms still felt cool. Not uncomfortably so but not warm. Perhaps this means that they will be less likely to overheat when working hard on the slopes. I do wonder about the extra effects of windchill, though compared with the gale and heavy rain that we were exposed to last night, it may not be much different.
The one real disappointment were the long johns. They are supposed to be made with no-chafe, flat stretch seams but I found that the seams on the insides of the legs did just that. Perhaps I need to keep them for really cold conditions and wear them over some F1 type baselayers.
So I am still a bit unsure about the combo wrt to temperature and will take extra layers (such as the Paramo mountain vent) to wear if it is really cold. I won't be washing the F2 stuff until I get back from the trip in late Feb, so we will see how they perform then.
I've never tried the F2 leggings. Frankly, I find the F2 pretty warm and my legs don't feel the cold that badly. My experience of the F1 longjohns is that fabric was fine but the cut didn't suit me very well. Of course, you might find that the fit has improved or that your build is closer to the SZ model. Anyway, there are still plenty of F1 longjohns on clearance. But for my money, the Helly Hansen sport weight LIFA (HH DRY) longjohns are hard to beat. If you want warmer, then perhaps you are a contender for their Prowool or Prowool Hybrid models.
Anyway, let me know what happens when you eventually wash the F2 kit!
yes know the dry-slope place on north side of Pendle, cycle past it to Sabden. That restaurant looks a little weird...Did I understand correctly you have a long-sleeve plus short-sleeve under the Velez and arms too cold?
If I'm not working my body I can get cold in the arms if I have a long-sleeve T under velez, and need to add, say, an Explorer to beef up the arm insulation. However, when I'm working hard I'm (if anything) too warm in the Velez and open everything (sleeves up, bare arms, side-vents open and if not raining the neck.
If you were cold, I'm guessing you weren't generating enough heat from within. The velez is about same as a windproof over a thin fleece, no better and you can't just let-go down a cold slop and expect to be warm.
As its easier to over-layer than under-layer in wet conditions, I carry a belay gillet, it doesn't cover the arms, but warms the core that then makes arms warmer, and gillet is easier to add/remove. The Paramo Gillet (available from WWD not far from that ski place) folds into its own pocket, packed its about 1L-2L volume.
Another approach is arm-warmers, used by cyclists, not windproof, so you'd wear under the Velez, they're quite smooth so you could store in the Velez front pocket, to fit slide up sleeves, fit on the arm-warmers and pull Velez sleeves down - that would focus insulation just on the arms in a removable manner, if that helps. Ribble Cycles in Preston sell them upstairs.
I have never been into the restaurant, though the slope is reasonable, not as big as Rossendale but only a couple of miles from home. I go that way over the Nick of Pendle on my way to work.
I had both long sleeved F1 T and F2 zip T on at the time. We were standing around, so probably not generating a lot of heat. I have been a bit surprised, the depth of insulation tells me that it shouldn't be much warmer than a hard shell but many forum threads talking about Paramo go on about how warm it is. I got the Velez at WWD, my local dealer and a very helpful place. You have given me an idea, I may have a look at the Torres as a overlayer if it gets very cold.
Who knows what the weather will be when we go, so I'm taking as many options as possible .
The insulation on the Velez may be misunderstood. In a windy condition, the outer fabric presses on the skin and you feel the cold, but un-squashed the multiple layers trap heat. The layers are not "foamy" like fleece fabric so it can still feel cold on a strong wind-ward side. This is compounded by general bagginess of the Analogy range if you're not plump for your length so it traps even more air between the fabric and flesh.
There's more than 1 type of insulation. Not helped by the way the human body focuses on survival rather than comfort, your arms felt cold but your body may just be keeping warmth in the torso waiting for it to reach tipping point and then dump heat into the arms.
Check out the Torres, roll it up. The smock is HUGE and the gillet has bare arms - neither a perfect solution, but borrowing from cycling gear can tune up any local problems (e.g. arms).
i have these, thanks to john. they are very good when i just wear a gilet and the day hasn't yet warmed up enough and at the end of the day too. they keep my hands warmer too.
well done for pointing us at well priced kit that does what it says john.
I haven't ever tried the arm warmers, Parky, mainly because they wouldn't be suitable for rowing which is when I'd most like to use them! Glad to hear that you have been getting on with the SZ kit. Even their 'full' prices are entirely reasonable for the duration of use I would expect to get out of them, and when they go on clearance they really aren't easy to resist!
Plus, I notice, they have recently introduced a line of budget polypropylene baselayers. Given that polypro is relatively costly to produce and doesn't rely on fabric coatings, I would have thought that it could be an excellent entry-level choice for walkers who don't wish to fork out on pricey baselayer.
I'm flying to Chicago to do some IT work next month, average temperatures are -7c to -1C, but if there's a strong wind it can be quite a bit worse.
I wish to travel very light, from my house in England, walk to the railway station, train to airport, airport..... Chicago O'Hare, the subway to downtown and then a 1mile walk to my hotel and then over next few days some brief outdoor adventures. When I was there last it was quite mild, and e.g. today its 2C.
Now if i was treating this as a walk up a mountain, I'd leave base with some view of the weather for the day. I know climbing about 3000feet drops temperature about 10C, and I know windproofs limit the effect of windchill so I need to take a mid-layer, a belay layer and either waterproofs or windproofs.
However, the difference in climate for this "trip" could be much greater, say as much as 20C difference. So I'm just leaving "basecamp" (i.e. England) and must pass through the warm stage (sit in airport) and then cope with extremes at the "peak" (walk across Chicago), then what's a good set of clothing? Clearly something warm when under other layers but cool when exposed or pack very small. What's high insulation to weight garments to throw on when the chill off Lake Michigan hits me?
I was thinking of wearing a Berghaus X-static (lasts about 5 days before a wash), my Rab Drillium as a windproof/waterproof, and packing a lambswool jumper and my Paramo Torrest Gillet. If the weather at destination is cold, wear base-jumper-waterproof-jumper-gillet. Would that do for a windy -20c?
Legs..... I was thinking of travelling wearing some cheap Regatta, pack a Cambia longjong and some windproofs. I can on the aeroplane before landing layer Cambia under trousers and only add the windproofs if required? I'd pack a couple of Buffs to aid the neck/head area. Gloves, good socks and hiking boots (to be removed passing through security).
I don't own any Merino baselayers (e.g. Icebreaker), would they be warm when I want them to be and cool when I don't? If so how? What is max warmth/weight midlaye? Merino again? A magical material which has minimal insulative properties when the temperature outside is in the 10c-20c area but somehow thickens itself up as the outside temperature drops. Does such a material exist?
My backpack would pack a mid-layer, belay layer, waterproof top + trousers and a change of shirt and some work trousers, and a laptop+mains, I reckon will fit in handluggage restrictions? Pity can't pack my swissarmyknife.
I do like travelling light, works fine in summer as a windproof is all the insulation you need. Usually wrap change of clothes around the laptop rather than a padded laptop-specific bag.
I wore a Subzero F1 long-sleeve yesterday for a 6 hour bike ride. The manufacturer claims anti-bacterial finish, but it smelled around armpits after the ride. I kept insulation to a minimum and needed only about 0.5L water (plus some fruit) in the journey so I don't think I sweated much.
It was warm, wicking (as far as I could tell), comfy.
I agree that the claims of pong-free living are a bit overrated - but the same is true of all other synthetics I have tried. It is one of the genuine (rather than marketese) advantages of wool that it doesn't pong as much.
For me, the smell factor is the least important aspect of my baselayer unless I am using it for travel rather than sport/outdoors.
Concerning your trip to Chicago, Nigel, I haven't been there but spend time in and around Toronto in Winter quite frequently.
The thing is with cities in cold winter climates is that you can easily encounter a change of 30-40 C just by stepping in or out of a shop or office building. For that reason, the locals generally favour wearing normal clothing that would be comfortable in a 20C office environment and throwing on a single heavy coat to go out.
As this isn't the typical strategy of hill folk, who use layers, it can be a bit difficult to get it right. The obvious choice to me would be a light down jacket with a good DWR finish and leave the rain gear at home. If the weather turns out to be warm and damp, then a locally purchased poncho or cheap waterproof would probably be fine. The advantage of a down jacket is that it gives you very good windproofing and insulation for a low weight and small pack size. They are also commonly worn by the locals for the same reasons. If the weather isn't that cold, you can always wear it unzipped.
Chicago - well of couse you are right you have instant drop by 30c-40c and whilst layering can produce sufficient insulation it takes more time to layer than throw on a coat. I generally use low-cut smocks or high-cut jackets to work better with backpacks. I may take my Montane Prism instead of a fleecy smock and with my gillet and Drillium jacket make a quicker 3-layer "coat" all with full-length zips. Breathability of this method isn't that critical as by time you're overheating you're back indoors.
There have been down jackets in the sales (saw one for £29), and lots of very cold weather type garments (Rab, Buffalo) but I think for an usual type journey I'm not that keen to buy something specific. I also suspect the local folks will bring in a spare coat to loan me for the week, so I just need to survive a day or so til I get a loaner. I have been impressed with pile+pertex jackets on insulation for weight.
English sealevel climate is generally mild, this last week it's only a degree cooler than t-shirt weather for much of the time. For me, it's being still, or hungry, which sucks me cold, if I'm moving I don't need much insulation other than on feet+hands.
