 There are quite a lot of possible values of "Karrimat" is one thing, and when you take it as a generic "hoover" like term the number of possible values increases a great deal!
Very true. I meant in comparison to the branded standard 'karrimat' that I had at the time - there seemed to be much less variety and choice in sleeping mats in those days. It will also make much more difference with a down bag than a synthetic, as down compresses easily under a sleeper and provides much less insulation underneath than a synthetic, so a mat becomes far more important there.
Yes, that's exactly what happened to me last Friday night. My sleeping bag (which is down) is definitely not unsuitable for cold weather. The bits of me that felt cold were the bits that were touching the thermarest (which is a 3/4 prolite one). Interestingly, I put an OMM sit/sleep mat under my feet and they were toasty warm. As I say, none of this came as a surprise to me really. If I went backpacking in subzero temperatures more frequently I would buy another sleeping mat, but I haven't really tended to do so very much - until recently I found that nobody else really wanted to!
Sorry for being OT.
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 Pete, before the use of CFCs was frowned upon, closed cell mats could be made using HCFC. This gas is actually more insulative than air itself and the mats were warmer for the same thickness. However, over time (many years) the CFCs diffused out and were replaced by air so the performance degraded over time. A similar discussion was going on here. The key point of the closed cell mat is that the cells are so small as to effectively stop all convective heat loss. Open cell foam used in thermarests - especially the 'waffled' kind that I have in my ancient TR Prolight 3/4 cannot achieve the same level of insulation for a given thickness. And once punctured there are two problems - the mat becomes thinner (poorer insulator of conductive heat loss to the ground), and movement on the mat will squeeze out warm air to be replaced by cold air from outside. I carry my thermarest when bulk is the key criterion - it's small enough to hide away tidily in any of my packs. But for warmth or bivvying, the classic exped karrimat gets revived. It also offers the potential to make a pretty effective splint if necessary, which is an added bonus to carrying it in winter. Oh... and for car camping, I use both at once. A little luxury never hurt anyone, right?
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 Interesting stuff, thanks John. Guess my old Expedition Karrimat has long since changed to plain air, must be at least 20 years old! I think for me what really sells the T-Rest is the chair kit: I can't get comfy sitting on the ground without some sort of back support for any length of time and it makes camping much more enjoyable for me without adding much bulk or weight. Pete.
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.jpg) So my next question! - How good are the chair kits? and are they worth the money?
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 Yeah they are pretty good, I'd say they are worth it. Very comfortable. Nice for sitting outside the tent with a glass of your fave tipple, watching the sun go down after a hard days walking.
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Personally I find the chair kit truly excellent... but I don't find sitting on the floor without a back rest very comfy in anything but the short term so it'll be more effective for me than for someone who can happily sit about for ages. Note that both the mats and the chairs come in different widths, so make sure you get the matching one. I have the lightest chair, don't see much to gain from the more elaborate ones. Pete.
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 The Prolite 4 is much warmer and comfier than a Prolite 3, but also slightly heavier, I use the womens version as its shorter but also even thicker than the mens and I don't use the extra length anyway. I read in TGO recently CT talking about mats and he had said he feels the best solution is a lightweight closed cell mat cut down to shape and length with a short inflatable on top, which I must admit I'll be moving to eventually as it is the best of bost worlds really and still very lightweight. You could use a very light but effective full length closed cell mat with an Alpkit Airic, cheap and versitile.
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So my next question! - How good are the chair kits? and are they worth the money? I have a chair kit and it's great. Not sure how much they cost these days as I've had mine ages, but I've always been very glad to have it.
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Cath, you could always buy a budget 6 or 7mm closed cell foam mat (less than a fiver) and cut it to fit under your thermarest. Should do the trick... John
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At about £25 they don't seem too bad. As a long time bad back sufferer, I think I'll invest in one.
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 Hello,i use a Prolite 4 reg and pack and store it like Jamie said earlier in thread. Bought one ages ago because i started out biking and camping/bothying,so needed small(packsize)+light! Have always found it great for in tents/bothys,comfy,not slippy and insulating. cheers Jb
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The Prolite 4 is much warmer and comfier than a Prolite 3, but also slightly heavier, I use the womens version as its shorter but also even thicker than the mens and I don't use the extra length anyway. I read in TGO recently CT talking about mats and he had said he feels the best solution is a lightweight closed cell mat cut down to shape and length with a short inflatable on top, which I must admit I'll be moving to eventually as it is the best of bost worlds really and still very lightweight. You could use a very light but effective full length closed cell mat with an Alpkit Airic, cheap and versitile.
Thats what I do Jamie if its really cold, very effective. Mostly though, I find the Wee Airic on its own is adequate. If its colder than I expected then the empty rucksac and any spare clothes including my waterproof will go under my feet.
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Rolling tightly and putting it a the bottom next to the sleeping bag seems just right for my Atmos 50 sack - Thanks for all the replies and advice.
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Just been and bought one of those chair kit thingys. £24.99 from Blacks in Northampton. great bit of kit, especially for those of us with poor backs.
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 I fold my Thermarest in half, roll it up as tight as possible, close the valve, then slip it in the stuffsack and into my pack. And that's just reminded me to reverse the whole procedure... because I've been away for 5 weeks and the thing needs to come up for air now! And by this weekend... I'll roll it up again and go away for another 3 weeks.
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Paddy I'm jealous 
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You wouldn't have been jealous of me the last time I used it... My flight touched down at Manchester Airport at Midnight last Friday... then they made us queue for nearly an hour to get through passport control. They had us waiting another hour at the baggage carousel because there was only one baggage handling team trying to service all three terminals. As a result, it was about 2am on Saturday morning that I unrolled the Thermarest in what I thought would be a quiet corner of the airport. At 3am a woman woke me up and told me to move because they needed to park some wheelchairs in that corner. Huh? An airport the size of a city and they need to park some wheelchairs just where I happen to be kipping? Retired for some strong coffee and was lucky to make it home without falling asleep and missing my stop!
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oh ...Paddy! The joys of travelling 
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 I roll mine (Trail3) in its bag, and attach it to the back of my pack. Fits nicely under the raincover.
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