 I've recently decided I'd like to get back into the walking lark after many years out. Bought myself a Marmot Driclime windshirt. But by all accounts I still need a hard shell for serious weather. My question is if you have something like a Marmot which is wicking away and water resistant can you get away with a cheap waterproof on top for those few times you need one? The Marmot should protect you from the condensation etc shouldn't it? And if so how cheap can you go?
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 You can go as cheap as you like so long as you realise the limitations and know what you are doing; there is a lot of rubbish talked about gear (I should know).
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 You can go as cheap as you like so long as you realise the limitations and know what you are doing; there is a lot of rubbish talked about gear (I should know). yes completely agree Ed, you talk blox 
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 The really cheap waterproofs are non - breathable and .......really cheap. So you can afford to suck it and see.
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You can go as cheap as you like so long as you realise the limitations and know what you are doing; there is a lot of rubbish talked about gear (I should know).
yes completely agree Ed, you talk blox
Problem. Both Ed and Dave talk blox. Is it blox when Dave says what Ed said was blox?
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yes completely agree Ed, you talk blox Ah Dave; always in the Windy mentality. Back from the pub I guess.
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You can go as cheap as you like so long as you realise the limitations and know what you are doing; there is a lot of rubbish talked about gear (I should know).
yes completely agree Ed, you talk blox
Problem. Both Ed and Dave talk blox. Is it blox when Dave says what Ed said was blox?
er, yes , er , no, er dunno.............
I talk a refined version of blox which is actually quite factual and informative......
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You can go as cheap as you like so long as you realise the limitations and know what you are doing; there is a lot of rubbish talked about gear (I should know).
yes completely agree Ed, you talk blox
Problem. Both Ed and Dave talk blox. Is it blox when Dave says what Ed said was blox?
Ditto; leave it on the other thread eh?
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Sorry Ben, your perfectly sensible query has become embroiled in some nonsense which doesn't belong here. I dont know the answer, but have often wondered about that myself. When I said " suck it and see" I meant find a non - breathable coat you already have or buy the cheapest you can find and try it under realistic conditions. By realistic I mean let your Driclime get a little bit wet first, then wear the non - breathable in rain while walking. Then please come back here and tell us the result.
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 I find a showerproof top works well under a barely breathable fabric such as Paclite. Anything less breathable, it will only 'work' to the extent that you don't have to wear the wetproof. Other than that, you'll get wet eventually.
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 Failing that you could of course opt for a basic walkers poncho type of non-breathable garment too-just for the downpours of summertime etc? Good thing being that it doubles as a basha shelter sheet too maybe even! It is an excellent inexpensive stop gap multi-purpose use item for the outdoors, whilst you decide on and save up for whatever breathable top you eventually decide upon to get! And you do not need to necessarily go the army surplus green or cammo colour route to buy one of those cheaply either, as a good few places sell civvie ones in blue or the such like!
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| Edited: 10/03/08 02:44 |
http://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/catalog/view/travelproof-trek-travel-poncho- £20.00 poncho as an example, but you can get them from Ebay and other places much cheaper still I find. http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/ishop/877/shopscr1752.html at this link a slightly cheaper but better one as it is ripstop construction material, which all poncho/shelters are not! http://www.yeomansoutdoors.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=704 Trekmates black outdoors poncho. That one is made of rip-stop nylon too.
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| Edited: 10/03/08 02:58 |
The poncho was just put in to illustrate another option open to one there Ben! But one does not really these days need to spend out big bucks so much for a waterproof jacket that is both waterproof and a good bit breathable too! At the next link a basic Regatta jacket that is under fifteen quid for instance! A good selection of sizes and colours there-black or navy blue-for that jacket too by the looks of it, so maybe that might well grab your interest a bit maybe? http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/mens-clothing/outer-jackets/5020436488161 nb from the same online store for another tenner you can get the matching overtrousers-available there in black only though-too! See the details below the main jacket picture at page bottom there!
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| Edited: 10/03/08 03:30 |
http://mountainwarehouse.com/shop/product/products_id/2721.html This mountainlife jacket is another good basic option, too breathable and waterproof!
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http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/qna/qna.asp?UQN=677&sp=&v=8 A quite good source of basic info on the good old OM I always find is our own Mr Richard Gear of course! That given link above takes you straight to the waterproofs basics there Ben!
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I see you get a different flavour of advice after hours! Thanks for the tips though. I suppose I was really asking how non-breathable can you go, rather than how cheap, though it can boil down to the same thing. I take it from the replies that you can get away with a little less breathability with this kind of mid-layer. The Regatta etc look worth a try. I had already looked on here about ponchos but there is a pretty clear consensus that you are nearly always better off with a waterproof (on account of how ponchos get blown about).
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A few years ago I used a cheap Millets (not Millet!) waterproof on my bike. I think it was made of nylon with a PU coating and cost about £20. It breathed very well indeed. After about 18 months of near daily use, the PU coating started to disappear around the shoulders where my pack staps rubbed. I bought another, but they'd made this one fancier and given it a liner and it didn't breathe so well. Bear in mind that in the serious wet nothing, except perhaps Paramo type stuff, is going to beathe very well, particularly if its DWR is worn.
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 ben, yes you can. as you state it will only be worn when absolutely necessary. in those conditions you are going to get wet either from rain or sweat with everything you wear. do not believe the so called breathability claims. cheap or even expensive (event may work and paramo certainly would but would be far, far too warm and both are rather more expensive than a cheapy) take a look at regattas, craghoppers and the like cheap options. i view a pull on shell as something that's going to stop me getting even wetter from the rain. i expect to get wet from internal condensation.
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I don't know for sure, but common sense dictates that the breathability of garments is based on evaporation. Therfore if you cover your breathable soft-shell with a non-breathable material evaporation can't happen and you will start to get wet! I normally walk in a thin base layer and the lightest TNF Apex jacket and trousers and I've gone for eVent in the form of a Rab Super Dru and Rab Bergen pants as my hard shell with a Rab Generator smock for insulation. I've just bought the Rab stuff so haven't had a chance to use it... It might not be too late to find a good deal on an eVent jacket. I got a Rab Lofoten for £109 (down from £200), but it's going back to Cotswold in Tunbridge Wells on Saturday as I opted for the Super Dru instead. Cotswold also had the Montane Superfly for £109 and some Field and Treks have the Rab Latok jacket (not Latok Alpine) for £150 reduced from £250. Slightly cheaper Cotswold were selling the Marmot Precip jacket for £50ish.
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 A cheap waterproof over a softshell will work to an extent. The softshell will become a vapour barrier, your sweat will condense on the outer surface and slowly work it's way out from there. Your body heat will prevent the sweat from going back in the way and making you all moist and upset.
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