chris, the short leg length makes my point. i notice some under 30's wearing it too, but they are a very small proportion of the total i see wearing it.
ben, it's whatever suits you. no problem but it's possible my velez will still be going strong after your haglofs doesn't perform any more. to guarantee to stay dry you'll have to carry it all the time (within reason of course). just horses for courses.
i would stress once again that to wear paramo require a bit of a mind shift in what you think it is and choose accompaying layers accordingly. e.g. with a merino base is paramo too warm or is the merino base too warm with paramo?
Got my Velez Adventure and Cascada trousers in black, as nature intended!
I was pleasantly surprised to find that I comfortably fitted in medium sized trousers to go with the large top. It had been worrying me that the large-short trousers fitted me. I can confirm that the medium is about the same length as the large-short and definitely a much closer cut in the legs (no baggy legs for me now). Anyone around a 33-35" waist would probably fit them. Ignore the Paramo size guide saying they are up to a size 32". Even Rob Cook of Paramo said they were 32-34" with the large being 36-38".
By the way, many thanks to Rob Cook for some excellent customer service in looking after me whilst I was making up my mind on exactly what I wanted (colour was the only thing I was certain about).
As it happens a couple of weeks ago I wore my Velez with a merino top (and a tee shirt). It was about -3C and with plenty of rain/snow depending on altitude, but I was not too warm. It all depends on a number of things: Temperature, Wind, Precipitation, How hot you run, How much work you are doing and, finally, Colour (black will obviously be better than any other colour no matter the other factors).
It certainly takes more experimentation to get right with Paramo waterproofs than other gear. And some people, like Pete Clinch, find it does not work for them, but for others, when you get the right combination in the right weather, it works very well indeed.
Paul, it's not that it doesn't work for me, period, simply that it is no use to me as a general UK waterproof (for which purpose it is marketed, and happily used by many, but my original post in this thread was to point out that "It really is as good as they say" isn't quite true for everyone). Ski touring, with temperatures typically between -10 and about 3, with higher temperatures bringing the possibility of sleet and rain, I'd put Paramo as about ideal. For the conditions you describe above, again I think I'd find it fine.
But unless it's long term rain a Velez doesn't really do anything my Montane Krypton doesn't, and that was 25% of the price and is 60% of the weight (and it fits me a lot better). Given I've got a waterproof I can wear through the whole year already, it's a lot to pay for something that will just take up very limited slack, but despite that I'll probably get one (or equivalent) for ski tours in future.
Sorry Pete, I was attempting to paraphase you to sum up that Paramo waterproofs are not the total solution for everyone, but that they work extreamly well for others.
I think we're actually coming closer to agreement on this. I certainly don't intend using my Velez when it is warm or unlikely to rain (unless it's really cold). At 765g (large Velez Adventure on my scales), it is too heavy to take just in case. I have to know I will need it and know I won't be too hot wearing all that weight.
For days with moderate temperatures (or higher) when it is fairly unlikely to rain, I put my Berghaus Gore-Tex Paclite in the bottom of my pack and expect not to use it. I'll then wear a windproof through moderate showers and only reach for the waterproof if it is really tipping down.
The Velez will largely replace my Mountain Equiment Matrix jacket (Gore-Tex XCR and Paclite), which nearly 300g lighter than the Velez, but has the damp body problem when used for hours in the rain. For that, I will take the extra 300g, using the vents (suprisingly effective actually) when I overheat. I also like the fact that a puncture in it does not mean a place where you will get very wet.
Maybe it's just me, but I actually think the Velez (and Velez Adventure in single colour) look quite stylish too. The fit on me is excellent (despite me not being a pie-eater).
Parky, I had tried the merino wool baselayer + Paramo shirt, warm fleece side turned in a few weeks ago and I was fine in it. It wasn't so comfortable last Sunday because
a) the ambient temperature was warmer
b) the walk was at a faster pace and significantly longer (17 as opposed to 12 miles)
as I said I'm still experimenting. I tried the merino wool baselayer + paramo shirt + Fuera combo because I thought it would be a little cooler than wearing the merino wool + Cuzco jacket. I think it is but it was a little too warm for the conditions I was walking under. And it was just a merino wool short sleeved T-shirt.
The other thing I haven't quite decided is whether or not the Paramo shirt is warmer than the Cuzco jacket. The shirt is 'thinner' and shouldn't be so warm BUT the shirt is a snugger fit which means it should be more efficient at trapping and holding warmth. More walks and experimentation required
I have nothing but praise for my Paramo shirts as even if they get wet for whatever reason they go on keeping me feeling warm and comfortable.
I think Paramo may be running in to that problem of having saturated their niche market, in order to keep revenues up they must broaden their customer appeal.
Ah, I feel the pull of the Dark Side I saw some Mountain Pull Ons in blue (Colbolt Blue I think it was). And they looked very nice. A very nice shade of blue. I can't believe I'm admitting that.
The shirts are great IMHO. Much cooler than the jackets/smocks for me, simply as there's no windproof layer so you can use the wind as a direct cooling agent. But even in calm I find a windproof layer makes a big difference to my warmth. Unless it's blowing a hoolie I'll often have just a Parameta S shirt as my top layer (no shell, hard or soft). It's windproof enough to take out the sting and very comfy, and turning it around does make a real difference.
Hello everyone, this has developed into quite a thread. I can see lots of answers that need adressing and I have some (personal) opinions to chuck back into the pot.
We are pretty tight on resource at the moment as we are getting our Spring/summer range out the door, finishing off selling in the Autumn/Winter range and also getting the London shop up and running, oh and our usual day jobs. I've been keeping and eye on what has been said but just not had the time to get into it, sorry.
Paul, glad to hear you like your new kit.
Parky, the new shirts etc are now in the store. Please take a look at the new Parameta A light weight. I personally wasn't a huge fan of teh old one but love the new fabric, less shine and feels sweet! Dry's stupid fast as well!
For thsoe who have got into the Parameta S shirts, ther are also two different weights...The lighter weight makes a huge difference to a clothing system.
A couple of people have asked where Catherine is, well she is off having a family trip of a life time, down in New Zealand.
I think some clarity is needed on the whole Finisterre thing. It's not quite as simple as it's being made here. I'm going to ask Nick if he wants to get into this or I'll explain the hows and whys etc. One thing I can make clear is that Nick allowed them to have some garments made with the Nikwax fabrics at Miquelina (Colmbia). To save time and to provide help to what is a small team (four blokes) in Cornwall, their designer Tom P was allowed to use some of our designs as a template. The Humboldt is based on the Velez Adventure and the Stormtrack is based on the Vasco. The fabrics are straight from Páramo standard stock. i.e they are colours we use.
The guys at Finisterre are/were communicating to a different consumer group. They work very hard with real surfers and some board sports people. The point of what they were/are doing was to simplify the offering as you don't need stacks of vents etc on a beach and you don't carry huge ruck sacks etc. The cut is different. Closer fit for some?
Páramo have done this before (and do offer different fits accross the range) . When we introduced the Velez and Cuzco (I was the rep at the time) there was absoloute uproar that we were doing the 'american thing' and going closer fitting. We had huge amounts of feedback that the size was wrong and that we had clarly lost our minds. I personally attend loads of events where we are dealing with consumers directly. You would be amazed how many people still size up for these styles. It may not be that they are large or out of shape (our best selling sizes are M and L) in this style but as well as actual fit there can be a very personal perceived fit.
Anyone bought jeans recently -have you seen how many styles (fits) there are! Whats right for one isn't necessarily wrong for the masses. Most people have a favourite and to be fair it's usually down to fit. 501's were the fit then they weren't. Tight fitting was in then it wasn't, Black was in then... Jeans are still loved by a fair few people though?
Interesting comment on the many different fits available now. I have noticed a definite trend in reducing seat depth (the distance from waist to top of the inside leg). This is not just due to trying to get people to wear their trousers lower (onto the hips?), but a clear (and painful!) reduction in the amount of material around this area. I'm a little surprised as I see many younger people with the top of their inside leg seam (is there a better name for it than that?) hanging down to mid thigh and sometimes almost knee level, especially with jeans. God alone knows how they would ever get over a barbed wire fence on a nice day in the hills.
Even Mountain Equipment, who have always fitted me really well, seem to have caught this disease with their Combin trousers only just being deep enough for me. Paramo's Cascadas were just okay too, but I wouldn't be able to wear anything much shorter in this department.
Personally, I like trousers to not be too high around my undercarriage, as it gives me more freedom of movement (without being baggy mid thigh level of droop), and also to have a high waist as it keeps shirts in and wind out. My Mountain Equipment G2 trousers are just about perfect for this, but they're too hot for summer use. Maybe I'm just getting old. Or my body is built weirdly. Probably both.
Hello everyone, this has developed into quite a thread. I can see lots of answers that need adressing and I have some (personal) opinions to chuck back into the pot.
For thsoe who have got into the Parameta S shirts, ther are also two different weights...The lighter weight makes a huge difference to a clothing system.
I bought one of the new light weight Parameter S shirts, as did my wife. It would be nice if they also came in the long sleeved variant, by the way I haven't had a chance to use it too much yet but, so far, it doesn't seem to manage moisture quite as well as the normal Parameter S. It doesn't seem to wick as quickly, or have that magical 'soaking wet on the outside, but feels dry against the skin' quality of the original stuff Still quite nice, though, and thinner/lighter materials are always a good thing in my book...
What's wrong with the Kea light? It comes in black. If you want the S light material, then the Active shirt is also in black. Or did you want long sleeves, in which case you're right - no good colours.
I quite fancy a Katmai light shirt, but in Moss or Slate????
> We had huge amounts of feedback that the size was wrong and that we had clarly lost our minds.
Product descriptions are key, then.
Closer fitting is far better for activities like climbing and cycling.
When you're climbing, you want to be able to see where your harness is, so you can get at gear, and you want to be able to see your feet. You don't want baggy clothing getting in the way, and snagging on things. Look at the development of soft shell, which came from ice climbing roots, and the 'new athletic paradigm' it spawned in outdoor clothing. A close fit is based on entirely functional reasoning for ice climbing, and nothing to do with fashion or vanity.
When you're cycling, you don't want a great big flappy jacket slowing you down; not surprisingly, cycle clothing is traditionally cut close for this reason.
As for the moisture management issue; a large dead air space around the body will result in a large temperature gradient between body and outer shell. Whilst a non-membraned fabric like Paramo isn't as susceptible to the problems of temperature gradient affecting water transport as membranes are, thermodynamics still has a part to paly. Not only that, but if the dew point falls inside the garment, vapour will condense. It's far better to release vapour to the environment (allowing it to do the cooling job it's intended for), than to let it condense within the garment, making it heavy and retaining the heat.
What colour is that in your photo? Looks kind of dark to me...
Hill Ninjas of the world unite! Actually, I kind of like that as a nickname. If ever I stop using my name, maybe I'll adopt it (if that's all right with Parky, who I think first brought the name to my attention).
Hill Ninjas of the world unite! Actually, I kind of like that as a nickname. If ever I stop using my name, maybe I'll adopt it (if that's all right with Parky, who I think first brought the name to my attention).
Hi Paul, the jacket 'colour' is Green, I must admit that this one was given to me by someone who found it too hot, I am not surprised, as he was wearing a Paramo reversible shirt under it! I also have one in Blue, much older and heavier but with that great breast pocket on the outside, what a pity they got rid of it, although I see that another one has replaced it on the 'new' coats My first Paramo was a short climbing jacket with the zips at each side, bought in a Paramo factory sale for £50
Out today at 8am, not cold and so I decided to put on a fleece and carry a Gortex coat, then as I went out of the door it started to rain, I went back in and put on the Paramo coat + trousers, at 8.15 the sun came out! I kept the coat on and yes it was a LITTLE warm, on the way back the wind and rain started and I was so pleased that the (right) decision was taken. Once on, it stays on. Not when the weather gets warm though.
I wore the Reversible shirt yesterday, took a pertex top, excellent, eventually the pertex came of and the shirt turned 'cool' side in, great
I haven't had a chance to use it too much yet but, so far, it doesn't seem to manage moisture quite as well as the normal Parameter S. It doesn't seem to wick as quickly, or have that magical 'soaking wet on the outside, but feels dry against the skin' quality of the original stuff 
Still quite nice, though, and thinner/lighter materials are always a good thing in my book...
