the Parameta S light does come in long sleeves - The Explorer light? Cypress Green and Elephant Blue. The hoodie tops (be nice) are also Parameta S Light. I've been wearing one under a fuera Windproof jacket on the dryer days or when I've wanted to get a real move on and its been ideal. Reversed as well. The hood also doubles up to keep crap from going down the neck and is great for rest stops.
I'm not sure I agree with the black and white statement about air gaps and looose fit. I understand the physics but- Climbing hard single pitch stuff then fair enough but doing something like GA on Tryfan can involve long belays and any warm air near you can be great. Space can also be good to encourage air movement - as long as the air has a logical (and useful) path to follow. I try to get as much scrambling in as I can and the Velez Adv is what I love. Clean front so doesn't get in the way of my belay device/system, long back, long arms, the hood is simple and goes over my helemet (Black Diamond Half Dome) and I personally find the side zips great for thawing out cold hands and lets me use my slings or a bandoleer and still vent and the front pocket is great for a guide book etc as it sits centrally and doesn't seem to move about when I'm climbing (I don't like one hanging off my harness).
Cycling, well there is a whole new subject. Most roadies I know wouldn't wear a waterproof if you paid them and suprisingly they nearly all wear black. Most mountain bikers wear baggies as leg wear and wouldn't be seen dead in tight kit - thats for the roadies and then we have folk commuting and cycle touring?
I wear cycle bibs (warm back) stretch pants over the top if its cold and a cambia zip neck (one size down) with a wind smock. works for me, but thats just me.
There really is a pattern with this Black theme isn't there? Black stays clean? Most Black kit I've got/had (including a car) was an absoloute pain to keep clean it showed everything that wasn't black. Another issue may be (this is based on when I worked in retail) is just because it looks clean doesn't mean it actually is! We used to get stacks of the early pac lite's back as leaking (when I worked for an outdoor retailer) and more often than not they just were not breathing and therefore wetting out. But they looked clean?
Sorry if this sounds a little defensive. this works for me and I do 100% know and respect it doesn't for others for a whole bunch of asthetic and other reasons.
Roadies wearing BLACK!!!!!! Not for me, I and most others that I know wear BRIGHT colours, Why? (1) To be seen (2) 'coz I like them. I tried Paramo on a bike (road) Not much good
Come on guys and girls, get some colour in your life
I was about to say "Roadies wearing BLACK!!!!!!" but Chris beat me to it. They will wear whatever garish colours their favourite team rides in, and that's not black.
I'm a trundly tourist. I wear a Foska Dennis the Menace coolmax shirt if it's nice, one of my Parameta shirts if less nice. If it had Dennis the Menace on the Paramo whirt, that would be much better! If it's to be ajacket then either an 'orrible fluo yellow Pertex one from Mardale or a Patagonia Ready Mix in "mango".
I did say "the roadies I know" not roadies in general. Bright makes pefecty sense to me and I use it but the thing I'm interested in is what people actually like/wear/use bit.
Most people have some kit they have bough because they thought it was the right thing or that it made sence at the time, then actually wear something else. Close fitting can be ideal (especially on a bike) but ask shops how many shorts they sell (with the padding) that are loose fitiing - baggies because some people feel very self concious wearing tight fitting kit so what do you do, not cycle because you feel like you look a pratt or find a compromise - which I guess was my point?
How about dark kit with reflective bit's, hmmm been there.
An old Helly Hanson base layer, Lycra bright top, Lycra shorts, White socks (or none) I won't be stopping so I hope that I won't look to much of a prat!
Skippy, interesting what you say about Finisterre. Essentially they took your garments and made them look nice! Shows it could be done relatively easily with a bit of design flair.
But obviously these things are subjective and as at the end of the day Paramo are an innovative, ethical, successful company with a loyal following why should you change.
There really is a pattern with this Black theme isn't there? Black stays clean? Most Black kit I've got/had (including a car) was an absoloute pain to keep clean it showed everything that wasn't black. Another issue may be (this is based on when I worked in retail) is just because it looks clean doesn't mean it actually is! We used to get stacks of the early pac lite's back as leaking (when I worked for an outdoor retailer) and more often than not they just were not breathing and therefore wetting out. But they looked clean?
Sorry if this sounds a little defensive. this works for me and I do 100% know and respect it doesn't for others for a whole bunch of asthetic and other reasons.
Did someone say that black stays clean? How can one hue stay cleaner than another??!! I just like black.
Thanks for all your input, Rob/Skippy, it really is appreciated.
shirt in ermm...black ...or....let me see....sludge.
nope. black shows every single mark. sludge just isn't nice. travel shirt implies, to wear while travelling and, perhaps somewhere warm and, even better, sunny. and i can wear a nice light feel good shirt in...erm...black or sludge.
unless i can just get that assassin's job, where they'd be most useful for skulking in the shadows. or a mussolini impersonator.
Hi Ben, what i said (esentially) is that we work with other brands and provided them options. Your opinion is they made them look better with design flair. I'm sure Tom would be very proud. I'm really proud of what we do here and you are right it's very subjective.
I appreciate the feedback you are giving and we do value it and in context. Stacks has been fowarded to the right people but I'm sure as hell not going to tell someone who designs something the sells to thousands of people (repeatedly and to new people all the time) that it looks crap. The loyal following that pays my mortgage, provides the folk at Miquelia a lifestyle, all of us a job and so on are very very important. But looking at the pile of new guarantee returns that come in every morning there are plenty of people who will passionatly disagree with you, thats not they are right and you are wrong just what you all believe, equally passionately!
Change, the whole brand was created by Nick to provide something different for consumers. you pay your money you take your choices. You don't like the colours and have bought something else, cool, good on you! Thousands of people do like it and give us possitve feedback (even colours and styles). Trends and fashions do change and fit is part of that. If you keep chasing the now then it's simply not sustainable for a small business trying to make progress. Development has to go somewhere and we have a finite resourse, lots of new stuff gets done but we know someone won't like it somewhere that can't stop us trying?
All of us want to move foward with the brand and are working all the hours we can to do that, You are right we could have done what we helped Finisterre to do ourselves and you may have then bought Páramo instead, but you didn't buy Finisterre?
NPC - thanks. It's good to talk, didn't someone use/say that once?
Skippy, I have tremendous respect for Paramo's willingness to engage with this forum (even with annoying people of the armchair football manager variety like me) and for what I know about your company and its products, as I said on my previous posts.
I only ever meant to give my personal opinion (and not even one that is particularly passionately held, though I stick by it) as a potential customer. Glad you are willing to see it in that spirit FWIW.
> but doing something like GA on Tryfan can involve long belays
That's what a belay jacket is for, surely...?
> Most roadies I know wouldn't wear a waterproof if you paid them and suprisingly they nearly all wear black
Ah, but Paramo isn't waterproof in the conventional sense... A mate wears a Velez smock sometimes when we're off-road. I ought to point out that we have both road and MTB experience, and sit in a functional camp; wear more clothes than your average roadie*, but don't get the big baggy short thing that most 'pure' MTBers seem to wear.
* A mate of mine does time trials. He told me that sometimes at the end, he can't really think properly, and can't move his arms, and has to sit in his car for a while. I suggested he was suffering from mild hypothermia...
And there was me thinking I was the only one with a black cycling tee-shirt, especially as it was so difficult to find. I think it was Nike that came up with the goods in the end. Bright colours on the road I can understand, and in winter I have a day glo yellow bib for my motorcycle, but who would possibly want to ride around in a white top covered in red dots or some of the other awful combinations available. Modern materials sometimes have a lot to answer for.
Rob, I have to agree with every one else. Hardly anyone around my area rides in black. But then in London they would get run over in a millisecond. Down in Devon things are different. When not on the moor, the area around Powderham Castle was always one of my cycling favourites when I lived in Exeter. It could be really quiet there and the road surfaces always seemed to be good. Going up Telegraph Hill* is also you have to do once on a cycle (and only once as it seems to take a lifetime to do). Coming down it, however, I could do over and over for the sheer speed rush you get.
* For the Grockles**, Telegraph Hill is a big long hill just outside Exeter. It is something like 4-5km long and just seems to have something special that takes the wind out of any power system that tries to climb it - cycle, car, motorcycle. A real measure of torque is if your transport can get to the top in top gear. I made it on a 750 motorcycle once, hitting the bottom at 100mph and the top at 50mph. I don't know why, but Haldon Hill is right next to it, slightly longer and slightly steeper, but doesn't take the puff from an engine as much as Telegraph. It really is a one off.
** People who visit Devon, as opposed to those that live there. I believe some other west country counties use the word with the same meaning - in Dorset it is non-Dorset people etc.
the Parameta S light does come in long sleeves - The Explorer light? Cypress Green and Elephant Blue. The hoodie tops (be nice) are also Parameta S Light. I've been wearing one under a fuera Windproof jacket on the dryer days or when I've wanted to get a real move on and its been ideal. Reversed as well. The hood also doubles up to keep crap from going down the neck and is great for rest stops.
Ah, thanks for that There were only short sleeved tops available when we got ours - I didn't notice the new ones.
Paul - Funnily enough I live (Dartmoor side) at the bottom of Haldon Hill which as you know is the same ridge line as Telegraph hill and yes the descents are great. The forestry Commision have spent stacks putting in some excellent trails (all levels) on the Haldon side.
Perhaps it must be a Devon thing. We have the Teign valley about a mile away which I use to go and scare my lungs from time to time and there is a constant flow of club cyclists. There is one very large club that has mainly black kit with yellow/red stripes and a fair few late 30-45 years olds and most seem to wearing black. The cars and Motorbikes race through and I'm amazed that I haven't seen any accidents in the local rag (long may that continue). I also agree with the bright thing. I wear black shorts/bib but either a bright(ish) cycle top and/or a Fuera peak . Ahh for a good blat down Hadon hill, chin on the stem, back side in the air scaring the motorists etc etc!
captain P - absoloutly right. Thats exactly what they are for but in my case if I'm doing something like GA I usually go off have a wamble up bristly and then come down by little Tryfan. With my Velez I've got enough to get me through if the weather has a sense of humour failure but If i have just my belay smock/gilet I have to have something else in a pack as I personally like to have an std Analogy garment with me/on me. I'm trying to keep the pack small(ish) or share with my climbing partner (we usually stash the second pack if possible). I'm sure lots of people do it differently though it's just the way I choose to do it. obviously this changes on route length, type, weather and location.
> something the sells to thousands of people (repeatedly and to new people all the time)
One final word; if I could find a Paramo jacket that was a reasonably slim fit in the body and sleeves, and had sleeves that reached my cuffs, I'd probably buy it.
As long as it wasn't in a 'Lurid Baby Poo' colour... Grey would do.
Until then, I'll just have to make do with products from Montane, Rab, Patagonia, Sprayway, ME, Berghaus, Lowe Alpine, Cloudveil, Marmot, Peter Storm, Aldi, etc. ACG, even, all of whom seem to be able to cut clothes that actually fit me, the effete ponce that I am...
Can anyone tell me if the '3rd Element' jacket is the same one that was on sale about 7 or so years ago and was quickly withdrawn, I tried it on in a shop and even there found it too awkward to sort out, let alone on a hill in a gale. I like the idea, but is it practial
There were only short sleeved tops available when we got ours - I didn't notice the new ones.
