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Some pics to show the wire I epoxied on. It worked well but the main problem is that if you press the can near it the epoxy may pop loose. I think I'll try a ring from another can next as CP suggested.

I tested it using the tea light with 16ml of meths and 500ml of water and the results were:

Boil Time - 12:40 (the lid was starting too move as steam was escaping at this point)   Burn Time - 14:20 (all done indoors)

You can see the level of sooting. It did look from the light reflecting that there was yellow flame as the sooting would indicate.

> the main problem is that if you press the can near it the epoxy may pop loose. I think I'll try a ring from another can next as CP suggested.

My ring suggestion is likely to work only when very close to the shoulder; take a ring further down the can, and you'll have the same problem with the flexing walls.

I thought about experimenting with trying to press outward 'dimples' around the can, a bit like a limited version of Trail Design's cunning pressed ring in their kegs.  Need to experiment with suitable tooling and some scrap can walls.  Three dimples is the obvious 'stable' solution, but I'd be worried about one slipping off, so would probably opt for six or so.

> My ring suggestion is likely to work only when very close to the shoulder; take a ring further down the can, and you'll have the same problem with the flexing walls

I tried it out CP and it worked very well, will take a pic later. I made the ring about 10mm wide and then bent a .5mmish lip out whilst it was on the can to help the ring keep it's shape. The ring gives more with the can where as the wire was so stiff it just popped off. Also the fact that the ring gives a wide flat surface to glue to the can probably helps as well. I think this is my new solution as there is no chance of movement.

I am just back from testing my pint beer can clone in tough conditions in rain and gales in Scotland. It survived but the mark 2 with bigger top holes that allow bigger spaces still buckled, between the holes so maybe even fewer bigger holes.

I put some lightening holes in the wall under the tab overlap. This was a mistake. a slight buckle and the foil overheated and melted. It might be possible to put lightening holes in the outer overlap but not the inner. The tight roll is still causing assembly problems I plan mark 111 to have narrower tabs.

For 2 of us Lightweight 25 gram plates were easier to use than the bottom part of the pot noodle container and for base camping in a rush, gas was faster, but for lightness the system cant be beat. Its quick enough.

Just when you thought it was safe....A n other Cone...with a woodburner option....

Template please

Well, like the Caldera, I've never seen the Ti-Tri 'in the flesh'.  But it looks like it is simply a smaller cone turned upside down and inserted inside the outer, and is shorter than the outer (it seems to come up to just below the level of the exhaust ports,as I might expect).

In which case, it should be fairly straightforward to create templates using the existing script; you'd just have to define the parameters correctly.

Now, if you were really clever, and lucky enough to find pans just the right size, I suspect that the 'Inferno' inner cone could be made to support the smaller pan, so you'd get two Caldera Cones for two pans, and a Caldera Inferno for the bigger pan...

I think I've already sailed close enough to Trails Designs' IP wind, so I think I'll be leaving this suggestion as an exercise for the student...  As a starting point, I'd look at the "draughtsman's construction" page, and use the pan & clone cross-section it draws to find the apparent diameter of the 'pan' for the Inferno clone; decide where you want the inner cone to meet the outer cone (just below the upper holes), and then draw a sloping line from this point to the base (using a parallel line from the opposite clone wall).  This will give you the pan diameter (you'll have to scale up to the actual size).  You can find the 'pan height' by subtracting the vertical drop from the top of the Clone to the point where the cones meet from the height of the actual pan.

I think, if I did implement it, I'd call it the Infernal option... that Infernal Clone...

Ed -  just read back a few pages

obviously the woodburning aspectis only possible with ti,  but the 'sidewinder's' packable aspect is already doable with the clone - just use a wide pan like a trangia pan. or like TD evernew  if you're feeling flush

Or a Gelert Phoenix Mini  pan & lid if you're not...

I bought one of these and one other their '8oz' cups in TKM at the weekend.  The cup will be for my smallest Clone so far... It's teeny-weeny...

Well, here's the tiny Clone for the Gelert cup:

 And you just knew I wouldn't be able to resist the Infernal Clone option for the script...

The script calculates the parameters for the Clone as normal, then, if the Infernal option is set, re-calculates the dimensions for a new 'pan' to make the Infernal inner.  I chose to have the Infernal inner sit just below the lower of the upper vent holes.  The paper prototype fits perfectly, with a snug fit all around. With two rows of holes, you canchoose where the pan sits, by putting two Ti skewers between the holes (demonstrated with bamboo here...)

Testing the design might prove tricky, as it will need to be titanium or stainless foil; aluminium will just melt under the heat of a wood fire.  Rich volunteers are welcome...

> I chose to have the Infernal inner sit just below the lower of the upper vent holes.

That seems right to me as well. From the videos I've seen of it working it seems to aim for a similar tyoe of combustion as the BB, with air being heated before exiting the holes at the top of the Infernal inner and also possibly more secondary combustion coming from air coming in the normal exhaust holes on the Cone.

I like the idea but I can only ever see myself using it with esbit tablets as a backup. If I'm going to do that then why not just take my MYOG BB instead. I dunno just to unsure about how often it'd be used as woodburner to fork out for some Ti when I need to make a good winter quilt or buy a down bag.

Yet more tweaks to the script to refine the positions of the holes; the intent has been to place the first of the lower holes right next to the overlapping joint edge, but this was incorrectly coded.  Now fixed.  And the first upper hole is placed so that the edge of the handle opening is at the point where a 'next hole' would occur.  Now correct.

I found some nice foil recently, and built a simple Clone for the Mini Trangia pan.  I discovered that this foil will score & snap like drinks cans, which made cutting out the cone much easier; I've been scoring around the template with a scalpel, and then cutting the cone out with scissors, along the scored line for some time now.  I replaced the scalpel blade for a new one (old one snapped...), and it may be that this is scoring deeper.  I'll have a play with the baking trays.

The baking trays are back in stock in my local 99p Store.

Can you send me an updated script please CP? I  have been playing with hole numbers so that I can then put an extra non template hole next to the handle at the top as my beer can pots are very small diameter and there is not much room for top holes. The update sounds as if it will simplify this process.

I got some "wing" paper clips which are made from a rectangle of spring steel sheet 14mm wide with alternate 45 degree ends to speed clipping. I made a new clone without tabs to use these clips to assemble. I can now roll the clone tight more easily with the paper clips removed.

 My new clone has the vertical edges of the handle hole folded double and the inner edge of the single overlap folded double. The Asda party instant barbeque foil need as much help as it can get with strength. Weight of new clone 23 grams.

Hi all,

Been making great use of my CC over the past year.  CP asked if I could comment on the issue of the tabs tearing when using roof flashing.  This was an issue with my first prototype.  On subsequent models I used a proper bending tool, so the flashing has a small gap and is not just folded over.  This sems to help.  Also, I made a little bend on the lower gap... too hard to describe, will post photos later.  This takes the pressure off the tabs.  The corners of the tabs could be reinforced with some JB Weld heat resistant epoxy, I will do this if mine ever tears, instead of starting from scratch.  

Excited to see the mini Trangia is self contained...  I'm going to try this, I love the mini trangia set.  Not sure if the flashing version can roll tight enough though.

Thanks, Marcus... and welcome back

The mini trangia clone just fits across; you need a fairly short burner though (mine with 32mm tall red bull inverted conics are okay).  I've found that I can put the burner inside the rolled-up clone.  As always, a paper mock-up is a worthwhile test...

You maybe right about the tight roll and the flashing; stiffer foils certainly don't like being rolled tightly, or unrolling afterwards.

CP,

Thanks for the information.  What distance are you using  between the burner and pot?  I've been using 30mm with my classic "Pepsi Can" Trangia clone. 

the clone for a  trangia type 27 pan (1litre)  just fits inside it rolled up .   Can buy separately if various flavours  (unlike a mini Trangia pan)

I use 25mm for my gaps for both chimney stove and "Pepsi Can" Trangia clone and it works fine.

I've been thinking about making a '12-10' style burner for a while, only using a 'normal' two can-base shell.

I'd make the inner wall as normal, only with pre-punched holes in the appopriate places.

I'd drill the chimney hole in the dimple with a wood bit, and then press the remaining dimple so that it will form a dome, rather than a dimple.

Then I'd mate the two can halves as normal.  Now for the tricky part... I'd usually punch holes of the size needed, as drilling tends to tear the thin metal, rather than cut it cleanly.

I might try filling the thing with water and freezing it to provide some 'meat' for the drilling to work against.

And, as I suspected, Marcus' pictures seemed to spur the first main burst of activity (after the initial, rather slow ramp).  The second one is after my little LifeVenture mug, and the latest burst after Andrew's great pictures.

So thanks to Marcus and Andrew for stimulating such interest.

Forgot to answer Marcus' question...

I use a 24mm flame gap for all my burners, but I generally use jetted burners.  I think chimneys need a bit more height, but Mole suggests not.  I don't seem to get any sooting, and the burners smell 'clean'; no sense of incomplete combustion (a rather sickly sweet smell of evaporated alcohol that I've sometimes experienced with poor air flow).

I tried a 'pepsi can trangia clone' burner with the mini trangia Clone.  I was surprised that it burnt out the 15ml fill before it achieved a boil, which suggests it's too big for the pan, and is wasteful of heat.