Fibreglass in the burner seems to give a more even burn in some designs, IME. No hot mid and cooler end. The Ti is from a more local source, and is currently under test. He may chime in...
One day I want to make a Tri Ti for its wood burner capability. your thin foil might be enough for the infernal insert and floors.
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| Edited: 19/10/10 16:18 |
 Unfortunately, the piece I got was a one-off test sample, and there's no more available. So, at the moment, it's suluk46's 3 thou, or TiGoat's 5 thou. You'd have to make both outer and inner cones from Ti, as the outer will still be subjected to the fierce heat of the wood burning, just at the point where it's weakest (the holes).
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What thickness is your sample that you think may not be strong enough? Is Steve's 3 thou going to be stronger? I thought just maybe, 2 different thicknesses of Ti would be ideal.
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 You'd have to make both outer and inner cones from Ti, as the outer will still be subjected to the fierce heat of the wood burning, just at the point where it's weakest (the holes). You might get away with using the Alu flashing that Yonky sells for the outer, I used it to make a trivet/pot stand for a guy in Sweden who'd bought a woodstove off me. I tested it with a butane torch and while it blew pretty quickly it certainly wasn't instant and the butane torch is putting out much more heat than a woodstove would. The downside is that the alu flashing is heavy. I'd be wary of using lighter alu though.
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.JPG) Well, Jim Wood claims Ok results using US type Flashing for his Fire Bucket (US flashing is hard- an Al alloy not pure soft Al like Yonkys - and lighter I believe(not seen Yonkys but 'conversed' with him about it in the past))
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> What thickness is your sample that you think may not be strong enough? 50 micron, aka 2 thou. > Is Steve's 3 thou going to be stronger? It certainly feels more rigid, even though it's only 50% thicker. I've not made a cone from Steve's foil. Email him and ask him what he thinks; he was enormously helpful with the SqueezeBox. Way, way, way beyond the 'call of duty'. > You might get away with using the Alu flashing that Yonky sells for the outer I shall try a small piece in my lighter flame; I find that most offcuts of the foils I use will easily melt in a lighter flame. When I tried the same with a sharply angled scrap of the Ti foil, it ignited, and burnt with a furiously white flame, just like magnesium. Watch your eyes (seriously). It self-extinguished as the burn reached the thicker section (~1.5mm), probably because the heat was taken out by the body of the foil. The advantage of Ti foil is that it's not ductile like Al, so it retains its spring, no matter how you roll it up. That's why R_Mac's two-part cone works so well; the spring in the foil holds the two parts in a firm cone.
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What is the 'inferno cone' referred to only once in this whole thread, and in the parameters of the .ps file? fantastic plans by the way, cp. good job
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| Edited: 12/11/10 11:07 |
The Inferno is a variant of Trail Designs' Caldera Cone that they make in titanium, and provides and inner chamber to make a dual-wall, wood-burning stove. See Trail Designs Caldera Cone I've not yet added to the instructions for the Infernal Clone setting, but you enter you pan details as normal to get the template for outer cone, and then simply turn on the Infernal setting to get the template for the inner cone.
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Ah right thanks. Sounds good, though I'm a little disappointed as I thought it might have been a conversion-to-jet-engine I could attach to any fat mates to get them up hills.
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Here's a Clone for the Gelert Phoenix, a copy of the Mini Trangia.
I rather like this one because it fits inside the pan (just), and is a nice low profile (due to the shape of the pan), so is very stable. It also works very well with one of my inward-facing flame cone red bull burners. So well that so far, it's left no soot at all on the pan. When making porridge at the weekend, I opted to cook in the pan, and, once the porridge got thick and hard to stir, I had to hold the pan still. The rim of the pan was cool enough to hold with a bare finger, so there can't be too much heat coming up the side. The porridge didn't burn... The lid of the pan set also sits on the Clone, and seems quite stable. I've not cooked in it yet. The Gelert handle works quite nicely. This would make a good cookset for Scouts or DoE groups, I think; it might be possible to persuade Gelert to sell just the pans, and not the burner and pan support.
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.jpg) On this thread is given fuel rates and boiling times. I must say
a standard 25L Trangia performs better. I have three four modfied
25LS all with six mins. and less boil performance.The stoves fit
in a pan of my choice,no extra bulk. Sometimes 1LTR. sometimes 2LTR.
Don't know why I have'nt spotted these boil times before.
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Boil time isn't the be-all and end-all for a stove's performance. If you're using a Caldera Cone, it's likely that you're into lightweight stuff. In which case, fuel efficiency is just as important as boil time (if not more so). Fast boil time usually means poor efficiency. The boil time for a Caldera Cone depends very much on the pan and the burner used with it. For instance, the Gelert Phoenix Clone above seemed to me to work very nicely when making porridge, but, having done some proper measured times, it seems to perform quite poorly compared with other designs; no boil with 15ml/500ml after 13 minutes. So, even having been making burners and Clones for a few years, and thinking that I have a good idea how they work, I still get surprised by reality... There are quite a few different boil times reported in this thread. See d3lphi's comment, for instance: "I got a very nice boil time of 3:45 for 1.75 cups (414ml) of water using 1 fl. oz (29.6ml) of denatured alcohol." The burner was so hot, it melted his Clone, though... Don't get me wrong: the Trangia is a great stove (I have a 27k, a 25 clone, a Mini, a Gelert Mini clone, and a Swedish Army SVEA), but it's too heavy and bulky for me now, except for car camping. I'd be interested to see your Trangia modifications; the Meths Stove Q&A thread sounds a good place to put them.
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 Finally got round to making a clone, thanks for the instructions CP. 
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We'll see, I've only made one so far, as long as it stops there I'm not hooked. After all, I only need one clone anyway so that's it, job done.... ... .....Could use one for my bigger pot mind.... ... ....and the flissure looks interesting. 
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| Edited: 27/02/11 09:50 |
Why not invert the logic of a cone windshield and straight-sided pot:
Use a plain cylinder as windshield/stand and a kettle/pan with inverted sloping sides (eg a trangia 27 kettle). The sloping sides from a cone (upside down compared to a caldera cone) allow the pot kettle to sink in to the windshield, leaving a gap for hot air to rise to the out vents, like normal caldera.
Advantages (hoped for):
easier to build
a cylinder may be tidier to pack.
trangia 27 kettles are nice
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I'm guessing that the main reason for the cone shape was that most ultralighters would be using beer can pots or tall narrow mugs rather than short wide pots so the cone provided more stability. Of course with a wider pot like a Trangia one that's less of an issue and the ease of construction of a straight sided windshield might be worth considering. I may be completely wrong of course, maybe there's a performance related reason for the cone shape.
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Also one of the advantages of a cone is the structural strength, the foil is pretty weak stuff and a cone utilises the inherant strength and rigidity of the triangle in it's structure, a cylinder doesn't have this advantage.
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I think a cylinder should be rigid enough: and it seems so much simpler to build.
A steel one would allow wood, although if wood is too hot for aluminium, shouldnt you just make the fire smaller?
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Continuing the cylinder idea: perhaps a flissure cone/cylinder hybrid:
use cone for top half (with 3 pegs where rests on cylinder rim: so as rests levelly) and simple cylinder for lower half: no complex upper lower joint tabs required:
/.....\ upper cone, resting on
/ |...| \ lower cylinder
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Difference upper could be used for different pots but with same lower cylinder.
Hopefully simple enough for Trail Designs to manufacture...
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| Edited: 06/03/11 12:41 |
You'll never look back. 
