The great thing about green tents is they blend into the surroundings so they don't draw attention to themselves, great for low impact.

the problem with green tents is they blend into the surroundings so they don't draw attention to themselves, not so good to find them when you're hunting for them.

The great thing about bright tents is you can pick them out easily in the landscape, great to find them when you're hunting for them.

The problem with bright tents is you can pick them out easily in the landscape, not so great for a low impact.

As ptc* points out, they both have their moments, and that's in both directions.  I have examples of both, I no longer have a particular preference.  You choose, you lose.

Pete. 

Each to their own - accepted - and lets be glad of that!  But I have often had superb views spoilt by orange crocodiles, bright tents or whatever, which, had they been green/brown, I would have been unaware of their presence (leaving me to think I had the place to myself). 

For me, it's important to be part of my environment, to blend with it, not to clash and stand out from it.  Look at traditional country/rural people (in this country at least) - how many wear bright stuff?  Shepherds, farmers, gamekeepers, keepers, estate worker - all fit in to their surroundings.

Red, green, red, green, red, green, bright, dark, bright, dark ad nauseum....

Bah.

Point well made Pete, many apologies for rising to the bait.

Maybe I will Kate. I'd like to go on an OM meet, be able to put faces to some of the regulars here but I cant wade thru the Blox that is windy, theres just too much to keep up with the thread.

I thought rob was being sarcastic, that's why I made my lighthearted photo based reply.

I now look forward to his field test report on his tent made of woven grass, bark, moss and spiders web guy lines.

Colours a side, spiders web for guylines?

Arent spiders webs supposed to be stronger than steel rope weight for weight?

I like the yomping with wildcamp approach so I might try join in with windy.

For a Moffaty meet would I have to organise walking routes or be in charge/responsible?

Ill start a thread in Meets&Partneres as I feel this one has been Hijacked a little.

Bigbananafeet wrote (see)

Ill start a thread in Meets&Partneres as I feel this one has been Hijacked a little.

oh I wouldnt worry about that.....

(might have to post about the Laser on the Moffat thread just to prove my point..... )

on a more serious note.....would anyone say that the fact of the thinner groundsheet of the Laser does lead to more condensation?

I am curious 

I certainly find I get more condensation in my Spacepacker, with a fairly thin groundheet, than I ever got on my old Force 10 or the Tarra (which is thicker to start with and since it usually travels by boat has the footprint tied in place by default).

It makes sense, the thinner it is the more cold ground will cool the inner surface which will give a better condensing surface.  Once I woke up and thought I had a leak there was so much condensation... but it turned out the snow I was on had thawed under me and the whole groundsheet (except where I was lying on it) was afloat on cold water, so if it had been leaking I'd have been very wet and it gave perfect conditions (combined with the humid air) for a film of droplets to appear inside.

I should point out that this level of condensation is relatively unusual, but it will happen from time to time and the thinner the groundsheet is the more likely.  I'll also re-emphasise what I said above that I'm not 100% sure the groundsheet is thinner on the LC compared to the Akto.  I think it is, but it should be double checked. 

You won't be suffering regularly (at least outside of cold conditions) and in any case it's nothing you can't wipe off with a towel, but it's another notch down on the comfort scale against something chunkier. 

Pete. 

As you know Pete, I am a great fan of the Akto, but in the defence of the LC groundsheet (which is less substantial) surely condensation is relative to temperature differential. So one way of reducing this is to prevent body radiated heat reaching the ground (and in so doing prevent ground coldness reaching the body).

So a more effective sleep mat may be an answer?

I tend to lie a short length of radiator backing under my mat (just around the torso) to reflect my heat back up to me. I seldom suffer condensation of any note.

Back to the condensation thing I would certainly say the thinner the groundsheet the greater the condensation but, the difference will be probably be negligable especially in the warmer months. 

I can confirm FB's comments regarding the use of a thicker sleeping mat.  In very cold and damp conditions you only have to put your hand on the groundsheet for a few seconds and remove it and watch the condensation form.  This is where a thicker mat as well as a small sit mat can come in handy. 

More importantly tent size (bigger usually = less/ less noticable condensation) and more or bigger venting options (leave doors open etc) will make a bigger diference than any groundsheet material.

so......is the Laser venting effective/large enough?

and going back to the point that Jugears made about about the radiator material as a footprint...i think this would be a very good idea. i have used it in the past for just under the sleeping bag but in a small tent the use of it as a whole footprint would work very well thinking about it. I wonder how much an Akto/Laser footprint made out of that (or laminate floor insulation) would weigh.....lighter than an "official" footprint or not? 

hmmm.

well i shouldnt have any problem with the size of it, as im only 5'8", and its opnly for me to go in. its generally for use in warmish areas (at least thats all iv planned so far...) and needs to be light as possible, and easy to fit into a tall thin pack.

I'm not enormously fussed about the condensation, iv been using a pretty standard 2/3 man VauDe up until now, which gets rather damp when the doors closed

also, the Aktos are too expensive, so the TN seems to be a better option. When i need something with a few more creature comforts, il look at the Atko!

Thanks everyone, some good advice!

Shay.

Points from various above:

FB, what I meant was that all being equal a thinner groundsheet is more liable to condensation than a thicker groundsheet.  Where I've had condensation in my Spacepacker it's been on the floor, not on me, so the sleep mat I had was fine, but keeping your stuff dry while faffing about getting breakfast in the morning when the floor's wet is harder than if it's less wet...  It's not a deal-breaker, just something that gets progressively niggly the thinner the groundsheet is.  As a general comment, the worst condensation seems to be when it's very wet, as I guess you get direct cold water contact rather than an air-gap caused by grass pushing up the groundsheet, plus it will be more humid too, so folk thinking "hmmm, that never happens!", it often doesn't even with the thinnest groundsheet

ID, is the LC venting good enough?  Clearly people are using them on serious trips, so it's not broken, but that doesn't mean that better isn't nicer.  One reason I like two-ended tents is that if it's nice enough to open the neds you can get constant airflow straight through which means zero condensation and fresher air, but then that means more weight.  It's better than a one ended tent for venting, not so good for carrying, so as usual you get to pick where you want your line.

As for Matt C's reversible fly and the various reflective material thoughts... the Saunders SpaceTrek has an aluminium backed fly to keep heat in, but I guess it wouldn't be impossible to reverse it to reflect away.  Here is one instance where I'll actually admit that an inner-first pitch with a throw-over fly could be a distinct advantage.

But enough of small tents, the new Kaitum gets its first outing this weekend!  More of a skirmish than battle as it will be at the Glen Rosa campsite rather than anywhere wild, but it'll be good to sleep in it at last.

Pete. 

Got my new, red, LC today, ordered it late Wed night got it here. Also got my Gourdan Stealth and other bits n bobs from Alpkit again ordered late Wed night.

Giving LC an outing next Mon and Tuesday.

Jugears wrote (see)

Got my new, red, LC today, ordered it late Wed night. Also got my Gourdan Stealth and other bits n bobs from Alpkit again ordered late Wed night.

Giving LC an outing next Mon and Tuesday. 

good for you Jugears.......

where you off to then.....? lowland, highland or campsite?