I drove out to the Brecon Beacons yesterday for an overnighter. It's been a while since I had a backpacking load on my back. I weighed the pack before leaving and, including a litre of water in the bladder, it weighed about 17kg. No problem, I thought. I used to carry 30lbs belt kit plus rifle pretty easily. Not much difference. Oh dear! I made reasonable progress for a few hours but nothing like the pace I'm used to. It was clear the I just couldn't hack it over 2 days with 17kg and I had to turn back and spent a very pleasant night in the Usk Inn in Talybont-on-Usk. But it got me thinking. I've always gone with the 'It's not too heavy, you're just not fit enough' view with pack weight. I've never really tried to save 100g here or there. Now I'm getting older and it's clear that I have to go lightweight if I want to backpack. I hereby say 3 Hail Marys to atone for all my previous comments on this board that implied scorn for the gramme counters and I add a few Acts of Contrition to emphasise that I am now fully converted to the path of the Lightweight (not Super Lightweight, I hasten to add - they're just extremists). On returning home, I've managed to take almost 5kg out of the pack without too much pain (some cost,however). Who walks with 12kg or less (with a proper tent, sleeping bag and mat)? Could you post up your kit lists for me to have a look at? Regards Jake
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| Edited: 24/06/08 03:07 |
 "Now I'm getting older it's clear that I have to go lightweight if I want to backpack."
Nuff said.
Im all up for lightening the load, but there's no point telling a 15yr old (skint/inexperienced) DofE candidate that carrying ~16kg is too much.
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| Edited: 24/06/08 03:31 |
 When you carried all of that stuff years ago back before at the 'army weight' you did, it was after much regular fitness preparation to be able to do so. Might be it is your general overall level of fitness that you may need to aim at 'beefing-up' perhaps - as well as cutting down on the carrying of any 'extra' bits of kit - that one could easily do without, thereby slimming down the load to a bare minimum. 
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| Edited: 24/06/08 03:38 |
 I once came across a bloke carrying a HUGE pack along the Ridgeway. I couldn't resist asking him what he was playing at, but I wasn't prepared for the answer. He didn't talk metric, but told me that his pack weighed 65lbs, and that was AFTER he'd posted loads of stuff back home!
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 An honourable confession!. I think your difficulty and failure on that trip was simply because you are not used to a significant load, but anyway you're on the right path now and you will evolve your own comfort level. I published my current gear lists recently in my Gear&Tech section. Read the introductory notes to see what is included and excluded - there are different conventions for the term base weight. I say lists because the weights differ over the seasons, I have 3 columns in the table. There isn't much difference between summer and spring/autumn but it goes up quite a bit in winter. As I say in the notes, there is much gamesmanship going on this arena - don't believe all the published pack weights you see, even when itemised, there is usually something they are not telling you. For some people reducing that public headline figure becomes an end in itself.
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 apologies for teaching anyone anything they already know but: you need something to sleep in something to sleep on something to sleep under something to carry it in that's pretty much it for essentials for someone who is experienced. put that in a pile in the middle of the floor. whatever you add to that is stuff to make you comfortable but make sure that whatever you do carry is something you will need rather than something you might need- eg do you need any changes of clothes or socks if you are going for the weekend, do you need two fleece layers or could you use a windproof or lightweight insulated jacket to keep you warm. cutting down the weight of items like a sleeping bag is the next job- lots of people seem to go down the route of a sleeping bag that will keep them warm at minimum temperatures and then unzip it if it's too hot. i go for as light as i can and then add insulated clothes if it gets cold etc.not less luxury, just less weight. sgt rock seems to have had a similar epiphany.
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 Been there, done that, Jake. Ages ago, I used to do wild camping while on cycling tours. Then I moved into hill-walking. Then once I started running out of Munros within day-trips driving distance, I thought I could get the old gear out of the loft and go on backpacking-Munro-ticking expeditions. First time I did that, I went up to the Cairngorm. Parked by Glenmore Lodge. Got the boots on, and then slung the pack on my back. I could barely walk!! I pushed on bravely, and reached the Fords of Avon and camped there. My kit was old-fashioned and heavy, but was also carrying the wrong sort of food, tins and cans, even frankfurter in a jar! I had planned on walking for five days. I went back on the second day... That was the start of my conversion. Got myself a new pack, a new tent (Akto), a new sleeping bag (Rab Quantum 400), a Thermarest, and just rice and dry meat. It has been a joy ever since! The most recent purchase is an ULA Conduit. I think I'll try the PhD Minim bag as well. It is perfectly possible to have a pack weight of 5/6Kg (not counting water) and yet be perfectly comfortable on the hills.
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here we go-i've attempted full disclosure but i don't own digital scales and have sometimes gone on manufacturers stated weights ( prolite is an example which often varies). There are still savings to be made- i want the haglofs oz and may go back to a foam mattress Big 4 Pack- Golite Dawn- 400g Sleeping bag- Minim ultra-350g Mat- Prolite ¾- 370g Tent- laser comp- 1000g Clothes Insulation- minim ultra gilet- 150g Rab windshirt-70g Long johns- 150g Night socks- 150g Hat- Champion micro fleece- 50g Gloves- Trekmates liner- 50g Karrimor pac-a-mac 270g Waterproof trousers-packable random (peter storm?) 200g Kitchen Pot- snowpeak- 155g Stove- F1 70g Folding spoon- 20g Windshield- turkey foil- 20g Sharp knife- plastic handled locking thingy- 30g Sundries Light- cybalight sprint 25g Med kit- a few plasters, some tick hooks, some lint, some duct tape-30g Mini led spare torch- 25g Tent shoes- some plastic bags ?g Stuff sacks and sack liner- assorted silnylon- 150g GPS- Geko 201-88g Water carriers- 2l bladder, 600ml bladder, 600ml camelback bottle, never weighed. I also carry a finepix compact camera that I have never weighed! Total: 3773 + water carriers and camera
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As an innocent teenager I once packed everything for a month-long trek entirely on my own, only to discover I couldn't even lift the pack! My father didn't help matters by loading it with family-sized pots and pans from the kitchen, and a Big Ben Repeater alarm clock (the can-sized metal clock with two big bells rung by a hammer on top)! My mother had begged, borrowed or stolen various items of gear from an uncle who was keen on the outdoors, but boy, was it heavy! In the end I did what every teenager does... I rebelled... and stuffed half the gear under the bed and travelled 'lightweight'. To this day, I don't know how much I carried, but it was heavy, and it got even heavier when it got wet. Let's say this much... my tent weighed 12½lbs dry, and I had a helluva lot more stuff on top of that! On my first day I covered more than 30 miles, and was so exhausted I should have turned back, but I didn't... I kept at it for a month... and I think I learned more about what NOT to do in that month than I've learned in the rest of my life!
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Lol, Paddy! Literally 'everything but the kitchen sink' then....your dad packed for you that day! PS - I still think you should be writing all this kinda great stuff down in a book form, so it could get to a wider audience there Paddy! I reckon it would be very much a real runaway bestseller and move you up to a whole new exciting level in the public spotlight, you know.
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| Edited: 24/06/08 10:53 |
I dunno... I'm sure he snook the kitchen sink in there as well! His parting words to me were... "You'll get arrested for vagrancy!" I'll draw a veil over the actual date of departure, but let's say that if I was a 'good' boy, I would have been in school at the time, instead of trekking all over the Pennines and Lake District. So there I was, early one morning, plodding past Penrith when a police car pulled up... and the 'good cop / bad cop' in the car were discussing whether to arrest me for truancy or vagrancy!
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my tent weighed 12½lbs dry, and I had a helluva lot more stuff on top of that! On my first day I covered more than 30 miles - Paddy Dillon Jesus, Paddy. Were you on SAS selection? Loved the bit about the alarm clock - classic!
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Jake - Fraid I got turned down by the SAS since I ruined my health by over-exerting myself while backpacking as a teenager! Did I mention that the steel frame on my pack snapped after only a few days, and I spent over three weeks walking with what felt like a knife sticking in my back?
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Geoff - thanks for the link. Interesting reading. I see what you mean about including everything in your weight calculations. All the odds and sods certainly add up. Am I right in thinking that you only carry a stove and cooking equipment in Winter? Also, I don't understand what comprises the difference between base weight and total weight. It can't be just food as it seems to be 1.2kg for a 2 dayer in Summer, 2.2kg in Spring/Autumn and 1.9kg in Winter.
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 i interpret base weight as being without food and water. another kettle of fine fish to stir......
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 Geoff. If you don't carry cooking gear, then obviously you don't use any dehydrated food. I wouldn't like to carry 7 days of fresh food! 
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As I say in the notes, there is much gamesmanship going on this arena - don't believe all the published pack weights you see, even when itemised, there is usually something they are not telling you. For some people reducing that public headline figure becomes an end in itself.
So why not include everyything? Camera gear? Fridge(to stop your fresh food going off)
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Who walks with 12kg or less (with a proper tent, sleeping bag and mat)? Could you post up your kit lists for me to have a look at?
Theres been plenty of discussion been done about base weights elsewhere
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but just try to find them.....
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An itemised kit list is all well and good, but the real test is when it's all packed away, ready to be hoiked onto your back... then you should lift it up with one of those spring balances with a hook... so that you'll REALLY know what it all weighs.
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