The other issue you need to think about is that the WBS is a side-burner, and is usually used with the pan sat on top of the burner, assisting the pressure.  It's not absolutely necessary, as the side walls also form a vapour pressure chamber.  (Oh, sorry, mis-read your post and thought you were thinking of using a WBS with a Caldera cone)

If the reviews you are referring to are the backpackinglight.com ones, then, as your namesake Tinny points out (www.minibulldesign.com), they didn't seem to know what they were doing.

I've got a White Box stove (from BobC at BPLUK), and didn't find any problems with it.   BPLUS seemed to have trouble when taking the pan off the stove; I haven't, and neither did Tinny; he posted a review on YouTube that might be worth looking up.  And bear in mind that Tinny also produces meths stoves, so the WBS is a competitor.

The WBS works best with larger diameter pans, as it produces a wide flame ring; it's not so good with a Titan kettle.

You might want to make your own, or make a Caldera Clone.  Then you could make cones to suit whatever pans you have...

I'm interested in some input on using an alcohol stove for 1-2 night trips but have some queries:

1. Which stove would be as safe to use in a tent (Akto) porch as a standard gas stove? Although some come with windshields and you can get windshields, I'm really after something which can be bought as one kit, designed for use together.

2. How much meths, typically, is needed to boil say 1 litre water? 30ml?

2. If you add water to the meths does it reduce sooting of the pan to almost zero, or do you still get sooting?

3. Is is 1 part water to 7 parts meths (saw this somewhere), or what?

4. Can a meths stove be lit with a flint and steel (one of those striker jobs) or is a lighter/match needed?

I'd normally take a Primus Micron and a part-used 250g gas canister or a 125g one, so total weight usually say 250g to 300g.

For a couple of days it seems going the alcohol way I'd need say 50g for stove+windshield, 100g for fuel (100ml = 2 meals and 4 brews?) and say 50g for a meths container (small plastic bottle plus bag for safety) so that's not far short of the gas scenario. Or have I got it wrong?

Hi Zubald , i think Im in the same quandery as yourself!  Just looked at the white box stove review on youtube and reckon its worth a go the guy looks like he's using a titan kettle and theres no flaring so Im going to give it a go as its not too expensive . I can always go back to my Optimus crux setup if i don't like it and it could be useful if i ever go backpacking overseas

I personally wouldn't dream of using a meths stove inside the porch of a Laser Comp.

You'd be way better off using a canister stove like a Primus Micron, MSR Pocket Rocket, Coleman F1 Lite or best in my opinioon the Optimus Crux.

Theres no way you can really control a meths stove in a Laser Comp porch when the weather is chucking it down outside. Alcohol stoves are great fun and light and also have there place on lightweight camps when you know the weather is gonna be fine but in bad weather you don't want a meths stove in the proch of a small tent.

Remember also that you will have you kit in there and wet clothes and boots etc in the porch, the small and controled flame of a canister stove is ideal for that situation.

The Caldera Cone relies on the rolled rim of the pan sitting on the rim of the cone. If the pan is the wrong size, or doesn't have a rolled rim (e.g. Trangia Duossal pans), it won't fit.

Then there's the issue of height/pan depth; each Cone is designed for a specific pan depth, to ensure the proper gap between burner and pan. If you use a different pan, the gap will be wrong.

The Caldera Cone comes with a meths burner, as I understand.

Tinny at Minibull makes a lot of meths stoves that seem to be well regarded. He also makes a WBS-style stove, called the BIOS. This also has a priming system using wick wrapped around the stove; the WBS is a biff of a faff to prime (it takes a while for the jets to be established, and, in this time, you can't put the pan on top). So you have to light it, wait, and then put the pan on top. I don't like this idea. Priming it externally reduces the time it takes. Tinny's wick system makes priming a bit neater than other methods (e.g. spilling fuel into a priming pan under the stove).

You might like to read this thread, too, and see the comments about the Caldera Cone.

Zubald:

1. A Trangia is, IMHO, one of the safest stoves you can get, because of the small, enclosed flame and stability.  I'd expect a Caldera Cone to be just as safe.  On the one hand, its conic shape makes it even less prone to toppling, but, on the other hand, its light weight makes it less so.  So about the same. I'd be happy using either in the porch of my Macpac Microlight (not on a groundsheet, obviously).  Take care with ventilation at top and bottom of the tent, though, to avoid problems with CO.

2. It depends (on many factors).  The stoves I make will all boil 500ml of water using 20ml of fuel, and keep it boiling for a couple of minutes.  Protection from wind, pan size, lid, etc, will all affect the burn times.

2a. I've never had a problem with excessive sooting with a Trangia.  However, my recent experience with different stove designs and fuels suggests that some stoves are more prone to sooting.  And I'm coming to suspect that some fuels are also more prone; the Barrettine fuel sold in Cotswolds seems good.  Bartoline fuel sold in Rober Dyas seems sootier.  Any light sooting that does occur can be wiped off on the grass.

3. I've never added water to meths.  1 in 10 seems to be the ratio given by those who do.

4. Yes, a meths stove can generally be lit with a 'flint' and steel, although I use cheap cigarette lighters as I find them lighter and more convenient.  It may be that they don't even need the gas, as the sparks from the igniter probably do the job just as well.  Lighting in the cold is harder, as there's less vapour being given off.

5.  500ml of water is plenty for cooking a meal, so 20ml of fuel per meal ought to do.  That gives you five burns from your 100ml.  Depends how big your brews are...  50g is more than you'll need for a bottle; my 300ml Pantene ProV bottle weighs 28g.  A 150ml bottle weighs 18g, and a 250ml Body Shop bottle weighs 28g.

What the Captain said.

I've found the Caldera cone much less of a fire hazard than say a canister top gas stove. Unless you remove the pot and cone completely off the burner you are not going to expose the flame. Also as a windshield the cone tends to stay put as there is a pan of water on it.

With the laser comp you can unhook the inner tent from the fly a bit and shove it out of the way to make more room if you want. The problem is more that there is no way to unzip the fly sheet from the top to vent the steam out.  I've generally left the hook connected at the bottom of the fly and unzipped the door all the way up.  Not ideal but workable.

Doing some mental arithmetic, on a 2-day jaunt I'd save maybe 50g to 100g using an alcohol setup (Caldera cone) rather than gas and I'd have to spend maybe 60 notes for the privilege...

Hmm, I'd be better off trimming some unwanted straps off my pack. But wait, as I'm now wearing not Roclite 295s not Terroc 330s that's 35g per shoe saved x 2 = 70g, but multiply by 3 (to make it "backpack equivalent") =  a whopping 210g!

Or, I could take more notice of the missus' stern stares and lose a few 100g in blubber.

So I guess I'm saying that I'm really not sure I can see the point in alcohol stoves, except where you need to buy fuel and gas is hard to come by.

Aside: somewhat surprised no mfr has looked at lightening the standard gas canister, as they do seem somewhat overengineered and seem to use heav materials (at least some steel, as they do rust).

Back to the OP

Does anyone seriously recommend the use of a whitebox stove in a laser comp porch?

I dont own either but I have seen both in action and it doesnt look like a MATCH made in heaven to me. (pun intended)

I too wasn't keen on the flames from meths stoves (especially the White Box Stove). Next time I am out, I'll be trying the BlackFly3 stove from realTinny. It uses wicks instead of direct flame.

Fuel for overnighter (dash it, it's chucking it down here)  fits inside Alpkit titanium mug. Bigger fuel container (the 300ml Palmolive bottle) fits inside the SnowPeak900 for longer trips. As well as windshield, stove, folding spork and whatever else I can add to the spaces of either mug.

I'm getting a look at the Caldera Cone next weekend.

I've got a Caldera Cone for the MSR Titan.  I've only tried it out a couple of times, but I am very impressed with it.  If you're interested, these are the weights I recorded for it:

• Stove 15g
• Windshield 34g
• Fuel bottle 23g should be good for a weekend, but I can't remember its capacity.
• Plastic holder/protector/cup etc 74g (optional, but will protect the whole lot well)
• Titan 127g
• Meths? didn't weigh the bottle full.

Drop the plastic protector and you have 200g plus meths.  A gas canister (250g model) weighs around 150g empty, so it will obiously weigh much more with stove (less than 100g for a light one), gas, windshield (or a lot more gas!), Titan (or other pot).

15ml of meths comfortably boiled 500ml of water.  Boil time was around 6-7 mins (I can't remember exactly, but longer than a gas stove) - If that's important, I'm willing to test it over the weekend - if I remember to!  The stove looks a bit flimsy, so I may upgrade it to something tougher (heresy say the ultra-ultra-lighters).

The cone does fit only certain models of pot, but the Titan model fits several similar sized pots.  I suggest talking to Ultralight Outdoor Gear, who supplied mine.

OK, pedant mode "on" here

Gas option. Primus Micron 96g, Coleman 100 gas cylinder (full, does me for 4 days) 175g, total 271g excluding pan.

Alcohol option (Paul's weights). Caldera cone stove and windshield, plastic holder, fuel bottle, meths (1 day = 3x500ml at 15ml each), total 236g excluding pan.

Total saving for alcohol option 35g (or 100g if you ditch the plastic holder and use a 9g placcie bag instead). Using a Primus Micron TI stove at 69g the alcohol option saving reduces to 8g!

For 1 night, you'd save 80g with alcohol. For 3 nights and more gas is lighter.

Conclusion: alcohol is just not worth it if your aim is to save weight.

Zubald,  I could understand you arguing that it is a lot of faff for a small saving, but not that it is just not worth it (if you really want to put the pedant hat on, get it right!).  From the numbers you present, you show a clear 70g saving on a three night trip (around 120g for a 1 nighter).  Given a lot of people cut off labels in clothes etc, I think they would tear your arm off for a 100g saving.

I'm not disbelieving your 4 day figure, but it sure says you are efficient on gas.  MSR Reactor claims to boil around 22l of water from 250g of gas in a lab.  That's 8.8 litres from a small gas cylinder.  You get 6 litres (from your figures of 3x500ml /day) in the field without a windshield and using a less efficient pot / stove.  I am very impressed.  If MSR inflate their claims, as many manufacturers do, you are even more impressively frugal with the gas.  As such, I think you should keep with it, for you it works very well.  I certainly can't get that frugal with a Pocket Rocket and MSR Titan combined with a medium gas can out in the wilds.

What about cost?  Meths is dirt cheap (~£3 for 1 litre / 15p per day), using your figures you spend £2-3 for a 3 day trip (and then have a gas cylinder to no real use outside of car camping as it will be close to exhausted).  Some people are also very cost sensitive.

I'm not arguing with you as a meths fan, but as a gas fan who is currently looking into meths options to see if they work for me.  It may be in time I will say that the faff is not worth the cost / weight saving, but I'd like to try it in practice more before deciding.

If you want real light option, a 10g solid fuel cooker with 3 * 14g Esbit tabs per day will meet the 3 * 500ml boil requirements.  Total of 136g for 3 days. Cost goes up, but faff comes down - light & wait (though time goes up).

There's something missing here.

The meths stoves mentioned above are designed to be used with cozies. My AGG stove will boil .7l of water with approx 25 to 35ml of fuel, adding a (home) dehydrated meal and putting in cozy is all that's needed. Apart from a 10 minute wait for your food.

I have cooked sausages on the stove which will deplete your fuel supply like mad! I use an AGG fuel bottle that weighs 32g and holds enough fuel for 3 days out. BTW 1ml of meths weighs 0.8g.

> There's something missing here.

Not really.  Cozy cooking is totally independent of the method used to heat the water; meths, gas or petrol.