Gear

I can't decide which one???

I'm looking for a tent that's going to cover a lot of bases - 3 season, big enough for two, light enough for one to cart round, from walking in the Lakes, cycle touring and able to say, take travelling to Northern India (if I win the lottery). Really something that's extreamly versatile and'll serve me as a sole tent for a good few years. 

I've whittled it down to the Voyager and the Voyager Superlight. The Superlite ticks all the boxes, but I'm concerned that the integrated mesh on the inner could render the tent pretty chilly if there's just me inside. I base this idea on the fact I freeze in my 'meshy' North Face Rock 22 even in the UK autumn (and my sleeping bag is synthetic around the £90 mark - so I don't think i've cut corners particularly there).

 So, that led me on to considering the standard Voyager as you can seal the whole inner, and I have the idea (rightly or wrongly?) that this'll significantly help with keeping the thing snug when camping solo in the cold.

The downsize obviously is that it's 400g heavier than the Superlite and so is maybe just a wee bit too heavy for one pack.

I know it's all a bit pedantic, but I really can't afford to purchase a stable of tents and lugging my 3.2 kg 'Rock' around is a pain.

So, what I need to know is: when October comes around will I freeze my knackers off in the Superlite?? 

It's hard to advise anyone if they'll freeze their kackers off, as knackers freezing is a very individual experience!

But I can tell you about my usage of the two tents - I have a 1996 vintage Voyager (heavier than the current one) which I used both solo and two-up for 10 years, and then bought the Superlite model as soon as it was launched.....

First, the triangular panel at the foot end of the inner is full mesh on both tents so there's no difference there. However the flysheet comes down so close to the ground that very little draught gets in. The difference at the door end is that the Voyager has a full nylon door over a full mesh one, whereas the SL version has a single layer door which is nylon at the bottom but mesh only on the top half. In practice I've found this to make no noticeable difference - I've used both tents year-round - I tend to leave the top of the Voyager nylon door open anyway, and once you're lying down in the SL you're below the line of the mesh and sheltered from draughts by the nylon section anyway. I suspect a scientific test may show the SL to e slightly colder but I really haven't felt any problem in it. As a further comparison I've used a TNF Mountain Marathon with a full mesh inner tent, and that felt incredibly cold in any kind of breeze.

So my own choice would be to opt for the SL and take the weight saving. You could always make your own nylon panel to put over the mesh section of door attached with velcro or poppers, and that would weigh a lot less than the 400g difference!

(My only caveat would be if you expect to use the tent in snow - the SL's fabric is very slick for snow to slide off but the tent roof is very flat.)

Matt, thanks for the lowdown!!

The SL seems to be a good option then - as for the snow shedding ability, that's not a great concern for me at the moment, but good to know how it stands next to the Voyager

 Awsome Review!  

Where's the weight saving on the Superlight? How much of it is the inner?

Depending on the answers it might be worth considering a standard inner in a Superlight tent, assuming that works.  Worth giving TN a ring, or they're pretty good at answering emails.  I know they'll sell all the parts individually and if they're still offering the part exchange deal you should be able to buy direct cheaper than elsewhere.

I doubt you'll freeze because it's got mesh doors, but I think you will notice the difference.

You won't notice much difference because of the clever way they have kept the mesh up high unlike on other designers like Lightwave and even Hilleberg

You mean up high, where the warm air rises too, so it's easier for it to escape?  I don't see that that necessarily helps...

My main issue with Voyager is it isn't my idea of a good size for two.  Clearly others use it happily with two so it's down to opinions, but personally I'd prefer a little more space, both in the inner and the porch, if I was two-up for longish trip.  I'm also not  a great fan of inner-first pitch as it means I can't extend the porch by dismounting part of the inner if I want extra party or damp sorting space (the rainy morning thing is actually a bit of a non-issue, you either get your skates on or work under the fly which is a pain but it's possible).

Personally I'd take a Nallo over the Superlite: more room and the floor will last longer and a bit warmer if you button it down, more space arrangement flexibility and you can put it up in one go. 

Pete. 

 Walter, as I've time on my hands right now, I'll take up those questions....

I've read folks complaining about the puddle that can form on top of the VSL because of the flat area. Any feedback on that, especially in snowy conditions?

The puddling itself is no problem and easily dislodged. I've never had any leakage (it doesn't coincide with any seams). I've not encountered snowfall with mine yet. I wouldn't like to leave the tent unattended in snow as it would accumulate. I wouldn't be too bothered if I was in the tent because the fabric is so slick it would be very easy to dislodge any snow with a quick shake from inside.

And would you rate the SL good for non-extreme winter conditions? And how good is it in wind? Does it flatten up a lot or does it hold its own relatively unperturbed...?

Mine has performed well in wind and I've used it year-round and in some strong winds. Mine's never flattened (nor has the standard Voyager I used for 10 years), so I reckon if you're sensible about where you pitch then it's fine. I know Chris Townsend reviewed it in TGO and reckoned that as far as wind goes it's a 4 season tent, and from my experience I'm happy to agree.  You can find the review here btw...

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Reviews/Product_Reviews.html 

Finally, this pitching inner first business: what has always put me off about that is the thought of what happens on a rainy morning. With Hillebergs, you just detach the inner, pack everything into your rucksack but the flysheet and poles, then go out of the tent and take down flysheet and poles and put them in outside pockets. That way, the stuff that matters has remained dry. I can't see how to do that with a SL. After removing the flysheet, it must take at least a couple of minutes to take down the inner and that can be enough to give it a soaking.

 I can honestly say that I've used inner-first pitching Terra Nova tents since 1983 (not just the  SLV obviously!) and never found inner first pitching a problem. In the heaviest rain I used to drape the fly over the inner on the ground, then insert the poles in the inner sleeves and erect it. That's harder with the SL since the inner clips to the poles but tbh I don't bother now - I've pitched in heavy rain and as long as you're organised the inner goes up in a couple of minutes and is well enough proofed to handle things until you throw the fly over it. The inner also dries very fast so what moisture does hit it is soon gone. For packing up, in drizzle I'd just pack up quickly. If it's pouring then I'd collapse and remove the poles, retrieve and fold the inner, then fold the fly last. The inner may not be bone dry but again, given what I've said about pitching it that isn't a problem.

I guess there are pros and cons to inner first/outer first/all-in-one pitching, but I wouldn't let any of them put me off a tent if the rest of it was right for my needs. Prior to '83 I had a Saunders Backpacker 2 which went up outer first, but grovelling inside to connect the inner afterwards wasn't great fun. And having in the last 12 months finally tried a couple of all-in-one designs (Laser Comp and Akto) I'm still to be convinced that they're any more convenient - on day one they go up dry, but if you pack them again while the fly is wet from either rain or condensation then the inner is going to spend all day wrapped up with that moisture, so on day 2 you're no better off than with the inner-first situation anyway.

Hope that helps.... 

Peter Clinch wrote (see)

You won't notice much difference because of the clever way they have kept the mesh up high unlike on other designers like Lightwave and even Hilleberg

You mean up high, where the warm air rises too, so it's easier for it to escape?  I don't see that that necessarily helps...

Warm moist air though.... isn't that the whole point of venting the inner, to let the moisture be drawn away? Tbh even when I'm using a tent with full door(s) backing the mesh, I'll leave the top third as mesh to allow the venting, all year round. What the mesh at the top means though is that when you're lying down, below the level of the mesh, you're protected from draughts blowing into the inner, unlike tents with a full mesh inner.

We've discussed the size point before and as you say it's a personal choice. But the Nallo is around 300g heavier than the SL voyager so that's another personal choice, as is the tunnel vs semi-geo thing........

Warm moist air though.... isn't that the whole point of venting the inner, to let the moisture be drawn away?

Yes, but if it's cold then keeping warm has a higher priority in some cases and it's nice to have the choice.  With fixed mesh and no covering panels, you don't.

 Tbh even when I'm using a tent with full door(s) backing the mesh, I'll leave the top third as mesh to allow the venting, all year round

So will I for most of the year (though I do like the choice when it's well below freezing outside), but OTOH my wife won't want as much mesh in what I see as moderate weather: she feels the cold more than me.  And back to our OP,  he seems to feel the cold a bit too, so the choice might be good there too.

Pete. 

Nallo v. Superlite was the sort of thing I had in mind. I'm still a bit worried about some of the pics you can see on the net of Nallos taking a punishment in high winds. And I'm still wondering whether the Superlite might not be a 'quieter' option in those conditions.

It would almost certainly be quieter.  From Hilleberg's FAQ:

"My tunnel tent is very loud in strong winds. Is that OK?
A tunnel tent can at times indeed make more noise in very strong winds than certain dome tents. But the advantage in a tunnel is exactly this flexibility, not standing against the wind but giving in to strong gusts. With a flexible structure, wind cannot get hold of it. A side effect is of course that the fabric sometimes flaps. A dome tent with (quite often) more poles is more static and does not move as much but is not necessarily safer for that. There are different approaches in tent design, considering different behaviours in different conditions and in relation to weight and handling."

So if that bothers you it's worth accounting for.  Alternatively, perhaps ear plugs would be a more cost-effective way of dealing with it?  But the above also explains why Nallos wobble but don't typically fall down.  If you think it's not so nice inside a highly mobile tent I'd agree, but I'd counter that with the thought that more mobile on rare occasions versus more space on every occasion, I'd take the space.

 And now there's that rather impressive new Marmot Grid which looks quite sturdy, with nice side guylines inbetween poles (unlike the Nallo). Only thing, it weighs 2.5Kg

Well, you don't get something for nothing.  With the Nallo you lose a degree of rigidity (though that's not the same as "weak"), with the Voyager SL you lose a degree of comfort in smaller size, minimalist fittings (fancy closing up that big inner vent?  hey ho...) and thinner materials (more grounsheet condensation with a thinner groundsheet, and it'll wear out quicker and be more prone to puncture), with the Marmot you get to carry round more weight.  Which one is the "right" answer depends on your personal preferences: Matt likes the Voyager SL, I actually went for more weight and loads more space with a Kaitum.  Horses for courses, you choose, you lose!

Pete. 

Blimey, huge discussion here, clearly there is a lot of personal choice involved.

Maybe the best thing to do is buy the superlite and then add a small screen to cover the upper mesh for when it's cold. Shoudln't be to difficult should it? And only adding 40g of weight or so . . .

Shouldn't be too difficult, no.  Beyond that, I wouldn't select it as a "do everything" tent because the groundsheet is a bit thinner than I like, but then again that doesn't bother folk using Laser Comps so it's not exactly an objective fault.  I guess for me I like my design compromises in places other than Terra Nova's designers, which is why I've never much liked their tents...

I would say the best thing to do is look at your options up and pitched in the flesh.  Something that just doesn't show up on paper can really be "oh, I just don't like that" when you see it for real.  As well as dealers, popular campsites are excellent places to look at your options and you can ask the occupants for a look and for pros and cons which removes the "my tent is better than your tent" aspect of online threads.

Pete. 

Thanks there Pete, I've already tried out a few mates tents over the last 12 months, and it is a good way to get a feel for what you like.

For example my frind has a TN Solar 2, fine tent, but I can't stand sleeping side on to the door, thats why I've been looking into the Voyager range.

Perhaps I'll head off to the nearest campsite for a bit of  'tent-spotting'.

moderate to high wind conditions, say, it ain't better to have something with a bit of rigidity over excessive flexibility.

Oh, it'd be better in terms of taking the wind to be quiet inside, but then it would not be better in terms of carrying it or spreading out in lots of space...

Do you find the Akto uncomfortable?  Do you find being in your Nallo 3GT worrying in terms of its structural integrity?  If you find them waving about a bit much for your liking then maybe the Soulo would be a good choice, but the VSL would do it too albeit without so many little convenience features you get with Hillebergs.  If you really appreciate those (I do!) you'd probably miss them if they weren't there...

I must say for light semi-geos I prefer the look of the Lightwaves to Terra Novas... how about a g1 ultra, just to muddy the waters a bit more...

Pete.