 Much of the focus this morning in the radio reports seems to be on the inexperienced competitors to this event. Some of the more experienced and already rescued folk have been saying in interviews that the people out there really suffering were the inexperienced and the unprepared; taking part in the event perhaps for their very first time. 
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| Edited: 26/10/08 08:48 |
Looking at rainfall accumulation maps, I'd say there's been close on 100mm rain fall over the Central Lake District in the past 24 hours - which is about twice as much as what models were indicating on Friday. Keswick has 57mm to midnight and Shap 69mm Other stations in the area do not report on a daily basis so we can only estimate what may have fallen at Seathwaite. Conditions will be much better up there today - with just some light rain still hanging about atm, and winds also much lighter. Latest BBC report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7691531.stm
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 Ah yes... the BBC... who also brought you "Weapons of Mass Destruction"
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 Paddy! You might have hit on something there! The Lake District, maybe is where Saddam hid his WMD's! They always do put them in the places you least likely would suspect they do say, these magalomaniac world dictators!
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| Edited: 26/10/08 08:54 |
 This may be an unpopular view, but I'll stick my neck out anyway. I'm not sure how much the competitors 'spread' on the hills in this kind of event. But the thought of 2500 folks running on the fells on very sodden ground prompts the thought: what kind of damage to paths and the flora is that going to do? In other words, isn't it irresponsible to have this sort of event not just because of safety issues but also because of the huge environmental damage they cause to the fragile ecology of the hills? (sorry for the cliched expressions)
I mean, when paths are sodden, a lone walker can take care and try to avoid inflicting further damage to the hillside. But thousands of runners haven't got time for niceties and I bet they just splash through the mud regardless of the damage to tracks and flora. This can't be a good thing.
[ducks for cover, put on flak jacket and tiptoes towards exit]
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 I think the flooded water courses probably dwarf puny human attempts at erosion. Besides, I've been knee deep in great muddy trenches on the KIMM and gone back a year later and there's not a hint of a human having passed by. Races tend to avoid areas that 'normal' walkers go to, they're wilfully obscure on route choices.
HTH
Ben B
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Walter, I can only answer from my own observations based on years of watching the 'traffic flow' on the hills. Walkers, generally, follow paths. Those paths get worn more and more, until someone blows the whistle and they have to be rebuilt. Fellrunners, on the other hand, generally take direct lines, especially on an event such as the OMM, and you can have a thousand people converging on a control point on a grassy hillside, and you'll see no evidence that they ever existed the following week. I'm no fellrunner and I've never taken part in a mountain marathon, but I have occasionally taken part in events with a cast of hundreds of walkers. One that concerned me at one time was an event that sent 600 people over a blanket bog, and yes, it was very muddy and squelchy underfoot when I brought up the rear. However, the following year, when the same event went the same way, I was at the front and could see absolutely no evidence of any path. The difference between a path, which gets pounded all day and every day, and a grassy fellside that only gets pounded for a couple of hours in a year, is immense.
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based on reports to date (are they true!!!!).. It would appear that several competitors have required treatment for hypothermia and needed to be rescued/assisted of the mountain. If this correct then undoubtedly these people were underprepared for the conditions. Whether that is inexperience or bloody mindedness stemming from a feeling of infalibiility is not for me to decide. Hence they are no different to any other hill users. Accidents and mistakes happen, but generally there is little sympathy for the underprepared and foolish... On the eco point.. Events like the 3 peaks get slagged rotten and amongst that is the eco impact. There appears not to be the same outcry for events like these! Is that because only dedicated mountain people do the OMM? edited to add.. more knowledgeable souls have perhaps answered the eco question just before I posted my comments..
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| Edited: 26/10/08 09:08 |
 And it's only Englandshire, so why worry Walter.  
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...unlike the LAMM Mike
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Incidently, I've been camped out in the hills - on my own, several miles from the nearest road or house, in February 1989 - when over 300mm rain fell in 48 hours, coupled with severe gales force winds. My tent blew down soon after dark. I got very wet. I had a very unpleasant night. But that was all. So I do know what these guys will have had to endure.
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 I have just been looking at threads from non-outdoor websites and the level of ignorance is astonishing .I am so glad that OMers are so balanced and knowledgeable about the OMM . Does anyone know how much of the entry fee goes to MRTs ? Aside to this , i think all experienced hillgoers relish the thought of challenging conditions . If i had entered this year ,and found it called off ,i would still call it money well spent . Adventure keeps our souls alive to wonder ! Recommended reading : Do not go gentle into that good night ,by Dylan Thomas ...
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 This is stil a big news story today too, in the aftermath of piecing together exactly where all of the folks taking part are now located, currently. The report on Radio 4 news this morning says they are still right now trying to account for the whereabouts of about a thousand competitors and organiser volunteers too. It sure sounds like a right comedy of errors all in all, with the comedy bit being Shakespearean tragic comedy in nature most sadly. Lots of folks down with hypothermia, a couple quite serious, and still this morning plenty of folks out there thought lost upon the hill too. MRT God bless 'em, apparently reported as being out on the hills in bad weather conditions all last night, trying to search for and rescue the currently estimated 1500 still lost people. But ARE they "lost", Trev, or just camping out en route, not realising that the event has been called off? There is a BIG difference. OM competitiors are very unlikely to get themselves lost.
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| Edited: 26/10/08 09:49 |
And what's with all this talk of folk being "rescued"?
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I listened to a BBC report where they were talking to a woman in the health service. It was plain that she hadn't been out on the fells 'rescuing' people, but the interviewer was force-feeding her comments, and it was clearly difficult for her not to spout those comments back to him. Aggressive interviewing techniques and horrendous 'spin' is what it's all about. She kept repeating that the dozen 'casualties' were minor, but this guy kept trying to squeeze words like 'rescue' and 'stretcher' into the interview. It made painful listening.
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The problem is, "thousands of people who set out in bad weather equipped and prepared to camp in bad weather spent the night camped in bad weather" is not much of a story.
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 Just speculation, but here goes. Lost? Probably not, just sheltering in their tents and waiting for light and better weather. No one knows where they are! Well there isn't a decent mobile signal unless you are right on the tops. Anyone out last night will not be on the tops! They will have dropped down into any valley for some more shelter. Not made it back or checked in yet. Well, no because they are doing the sensible thing and sitting it out a bit. They may well be on the wrong side of a river and sensibly choosing the "long walk" option (up or down, yer takes yer pick!) Oh, and the no signal thingy again! Hypothermic? Probably just cold and shivering a little and would normally have warmed up back in their cars. (OK technically they do have mild Hypothermia, but I bet dozens of entrants are like that most years, but sort them selves out) Oh yes thats right, they can't get to their cars 'cos the road is flooded. So they have been taken to hospital as a precaution. Oh and the air temperature was actually quite mild for this time of year. So get out of the wind and cook/brew up. Put your spare kit on and get in the tent and You should be OK. Miserable, but OK. Several minor injuries! How many competitors have small slips/trips on a normal event? I'll bet there are a few "minor injuries" every year. Rescued. It would be interesting to find out how many of the"rescued" could/would have made it off the hill eventually, without the intervention of the MRTs. (No I am not anti rescue, I was a member for many years) I feel that the whole situation has been blown out of all proportion. Yes there are a lot of folks unaccounted for, my mate for one. I do sincerely hope there are no serious casualties, I can see Scafell and the Coniston range from my window and it still looks wet and windy. Yesterday I couldnt see the bottom of my garden!
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 I was out there with a group yesterday and conditions really were unpleasant. Severe winds, rain, etc. - the worst conditions I've walked in, outside of Scottish winter, ever. However, we had a few fairly inexperienced walkers in our group and they managed alright - we were not running, nor were we doing a difficult route, but the guys who take part in the OMM are a pretty gnarly group of people. They should be fine - just late down! The inexperienced runners will still had to pass all the kit tests and so on, so should also be fine: even overnight the temperature wouldn't have dropped below freezing so though hypothermia is a risk because of the wind/rain, if you're in a tent or hiding in a barn or something you should be fine. One of our group appeared on Radio 5 Live yesterday - I'm trying to find the 'listen again' so I can hear if what he said was coherant!
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 On the eco front, the organisers put considerable thought into the impact of the event. Comparing it to the 3 peaks is completely bogus, because practically everyone uses the same tracks up and down. On a MM you have to select your own route, typically significantly cross country, and the roues are carefully planned so there are several different but roughly just as feasible routes between different checkpoints. There are also several courses, of which the two Scores are specifically not sequential checkpoints. You can't just turn a couple of thousand people out on the hills in a two day race annually for 40 years and keep a good reputation without very careful and extensive work with those who will be affected, and the land they manage. And since it's an area, not 3 tracks up and down 3 mountains, there's no avoiding that consultation and securing of agreement. And you wouldn't get the agreement if it trashed the place. Looking over on sleepmonsters there level of cluelessness from some is astounding. Particularly good the man who is sure the event won't happen next year, and it was ridiculous holding it in October (just like it has been annually for 4 decades now!). Deary, deary me. Pete.
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