I have often been scathing about the problems of the space blanket; its limitations and bold claims that could leave a person unprepared if they thought a flimsy sheet of plastic would be enough to keep them warm in a survival or rescue situation. I was willing to be scathing about the space poncho too as I had in mind something like the Mexican poncho design (sheet with a hole in the middle) with some kind of hood.
However, despite the lack of realism of testing something like this in comfortable home conditions, I can see that the space poncho is a huge improvement on the classic space blanket design for a very small penalty of cost & weight. Compared with a standard space blanket I can confidently say that it would keep you drier in wet weather; more protected from the wind; warmer through acting as a partial vapour barrier; safer through leaving both hands free and have a better chance of protecting the head & neck. The collar is surprisingly good for something this simple and given the blood flow and hence heat loss in the neck, that is reassuring too.
I suspect it would still be prone to being torn in bad weather or after long storage… but less so than the standard space blanket as the material is noticeably thicker and more robust.
The real test is whether I’d give it pack-space. The simple answer is yes. I can see myself stuffing one in my wind-shirt pocket when running in Canadian winter. I can see myself packing one in a summer day-sack or waist-pack when I’m not expecting bad weather and want to go light. I can see myself making sure my wife has one in her coat pocket as she doesn’t generally carry a rucksack when we’re out together and it’d be a good backup for her if she got separated from me.
There are some limitations and potential design improvements, but it’s really rather good and I’m glad I’ve had the chance to test one. At the price range that this is intended to be launched, it’s not competing with higher value products like those from Blizzard but rather gunning for the entry level market where the space blanket holds an unfair grip. And if anyone wanted to know what I’d recommend at that weight & price point then so far I’ve seen nothing better than this.
Obviously I am biased because I manufacture it but a really constructive post, with critical but objective comments, thank you!
Just one thing to note!! It is designed as a one tripper and must be accepted as such. I make no claims for it to be anything else but a one tripper!
I think the idea of a few strips of adhesive tape, included in the pack, is a good one. As far as having a drawstring in the hood is concerned, it is not possible with this design but I will play around with a drawstring and or and elastic.
Good post John....very informative...and from that I guess you are giving a 8/10 maybe....
and
Alex..fair point re the one tripper. Thats the issue you'll get for people like me...we are sooo budget conscious that, to afford to equip a group with this (instead of binbags, for instance) I'd have to make them buy one each.
That raises all sorts of issues (which I could fill a whole new thread with)....so it will probably end up as a suggested piece of kit for them to get (which will mean that 99% wont)
Personally....I am intrigued enough to think maybe I'd get one and stuff it in my first aid kit...
I fully note that it's a 'one trip' design - at least one usage (could stay packed in the bag for many years I'd expect). But the reason I was considering the robustness of the poncho is not for multiple uses but for it's chance of remaining intact during foul weather. I had another look at an old space blanket that I'd got stashed away and the ponch really is a lot more robust even if you consider it a single use item.
The one I used for experimenting with at home has been refolded & packed into a small ziplock bag. I'm quite confident it could be used successfully once again.
Simon,
re your budget concerns...
do you issue everyone with a binbag because they don't have waterproofs? Surely if you're taking a group on the hill a pre-requisite would be a basic water & windproof jacket wouldn't it? I'll let Alex tell you what the retail price of the poncho should be in the UK but from what he's said to me it'll be in the same order of magnitude as the traditional space blanket. That puts it at significantly more than a bin bag, but significantly less than almost everything else!
Personally I'm impressed. Alex came on here... mentioned his new product... took a bit of flak but stood behind his design. I've got loads of 'backup' kit from AMK Bivvy bags to Bothy Bags to silynylon poncho/tarp etc. etc. but until now I've not found anything better than a spaceblanket to stick in a pocket when winter hill running. All the others (Blizzard, AMK etc.) are too bulky for that. The Space Poncho offers something I've not seen before - significantly more protection than a space blanket at marginally greater weight. I'd be happy to part with my cash for them in future.
A good point but I don't think BPD 3-3.50 each is a high price for keeping warm or maybe saving a life! I don't know if I am allowed to give my UK website, which I hasten to add, is in construction and is nowhere near complete, in fact it is only the front page but does give some info!
The binbag solution is only for emergency use - standard instruction for the groups are for waterproofs (and we have a library of kit that kids can borrow from in any case) but you'd be surprised (or not) how often a piece of kit will get "forgotten" "lost" "trashed" because its not the right colour, shape, smell....or shade of coolness.....
I have even had kids go through the kit check....then repack their bags, taking out stuff like waterproofs etc and secrete them under the seat of a minibus....
I have even had kids go through the kit check....then repack their bags, taking out stuff like waterproofs etc and secrete them under the seat of a minibus....
Wow!! . You're brave & noble taking them out then! Kit check like that when I was a schoolkid was seen as the opportunity to try to hide a large rock in your mate's bag... taking stuff out would have gone against the grain!
Alex,
you shouldn't post your website without first discussing it with the OM editor, Jon. However, I'm sure that most OMers know how to use google for the phrase "space poncho" !!!
Some of the details (e.g. weight) are not up to date on the web or packaging... Alex informed me that these would be corrected. The space poncho weighs around 100g.
Private school kids....intelligent (as a whole), confident and savvy......take stuff out. Inner city kids (intelligent as a whole, confident and savvy....put stuff in other peoples packs...
Both have their challenges and are great fun to work with
A good point but I don't think BPD 3-3.50 each is a high price for keeping warm or maybe saving a life! I don't know if I am allowed to give my UK website, which I hasten to add, is in construction and is nowhere near complete, in fact it is only the front page but does give some info!
Alex
£3-50 way too high for group use, especially as a single use item I am looking at pennies more often than not....and need to find less elegant but just as effective solutions. Binbags do the job here in the UK.
Even if I put it on the personal kit list...and I would struggle to do that as safety critical and specialist kit is supplied by us as a rule....the uptake in buyers would probably be low.
Most space blankets type devices/inventions seem to be aimed at the survivor outdoors in a survival situation at rest/prone or sitting up huddled in the blanket. This product of course is very much different, not just because it is smock style and bears a hood either. I wonder why the hood is there really. Is it because the designer believes the age old falacy of the most of the body's heat loss going out through the head? This has been conclusively long since been proved not to be true. Why is the hood there then, to provide wind or rain protection? I think not. It is of the design of expedient gear allowing free movement for the survivor outdoors on the move instead like the Blizzard bag product too is, that is a similar smock hooded design. It is like a cheaper throwaway version of that design to me essentially. I would rather have that slightly heavier better product that would last one for possibly multiple nights trapped trying to survive out in a wilderness location I think. It is not designed just for one trip! Great if that one trip you are not going far into the wilds, then this item would indeed be an excellent back up lightweight choice.
But if you are venturing further afield on a trip of days or a long trail of possible weeks, then this would necessitate probably you having to take several of these units with you in your kit quite possibly; there for approaching the same cost give or take, and similar weight overall of the better designed more robust multi use Blizzard product. It is a no brainer there to go for the Blizzard one in that instance. This design here does indeed have merits and uses, but they are niche very specialist uses, and the merits if any overall are very small it seems to me. I think it is a bit of a confusing product overall really, as one tends to first look at it as a single unit for its lightness and say wow that looks neat! Examine it further though, and it really does not hold up as such a great product. I agree though it has a very great use for inclusion into a first aid kit as a good little light useful extra - probably best for expedient emergency use for a casualty outdoors like a hypothermia victim.
That is my somewhat biased take on it still anyways. So would I buy one or two? Yes certainly for limited use emergency items for inclusion to a first aid kit of course I would do! I still do however have a real problem myself with any throwaway item one use/single tripper thing going into the outdoors as fear a lot of them might remain there; and I am very Leave No Trace outdoors ethicsy myself nowadays. I hate finding those cheap disposable ponchos and too Argos sold disposable tents dumped in wild areas. I have found rather a lot of those and other similar trashed and dumped cheap tents in my walks this year sadly.
I do have to say though, at the cost stated there I would not be able I think, to give these away to strangers I see who are looking a bit poorly outdoors; as I have similarly given away space foil blankets in the past. Where I have seen casualties sometimes in shock having fallen, I have stopped got them a brew on and wrapped them in a space blanket. Harder to get on someone as a smock design though. For that situation I will always carry a space blanket of the old type to give away if needed.
A good point but I don't think BPD 3-3.50 each is a high price for keeping warm or maybe saving a life! I don't know if I am allowed to give my UK website, which I hasten to add, is in construction and is nowhere near complete, in fact it is only the front page but does give some info!
Alex
£3-50 way too high for group use, especially as a single use item I am looking at pennies more often than not....and need to find less elegant but just as effective solutions. Binbags do the job here in the UK.
Even if I put it on the personal kit list...and I would struggle to do that as safety critical and specialist kit is supplied by us as a rule....the uptake in buyers would probably be low.
Personally, I might be tempted...might be...
reread this and thought I should justify my point.
I do work for three schools. Taking only one (and they are all similar) I have
120 Bronze DoE
60 Silver DoE
and
10 Gold DoE candidates
Total 190 people. total set up cost at £3-00 each......£570...OK, I could get a discount for quantity and wouldnt need 190, might need 150, but bear with me.
Loss rate...at least 25% (Gold = 0, Silver = 10% plus, Bronze.....? 50%)...so I will need 45 a year...£135.....
so...call it £600 in year one and £130 every year thereafter.....against the competition of 20x rolls of bin bags at £2 a roll....(if I pay for them at all, the school kitchen is very accomodating).
The bin bags are fairly warmish and too quite water resistant/as opposed to being waterproof. Yes worn them too years ago lol, when they were of a less biodegradable thicker plastic though. What kind of claims on waterproofness does the product addresss, do we know?
lol! No that means just in comparison directly to bin bags and the sort of waterproof plastic poncho mentioned first off here in the original discussion on that first thread of the OP inventor. It is my abiding understanding from memory then that we were approaching this item from the idea of a replacement item to bridge the gap between that waterprrof poncho type thing and a space blanket. I thought at least this was the reason the OP of the original thread introduced into it his reference to those water resistant type throwaway plastic ponchos; for a dual use garment invention that, whilst on the move outdoors, preserves body heat too as well as shedding rain.
I know each of us has a different way of going about things on the hill... but I really doubt that anyone in business is relying on the likes of you or Simon who are carrying items to give away to others. These things sell to people who want something cheap, small and 'forgettable' in their bags or pockets 'just in case' and to emergency services & first aid kit providers who want to have something inexpensive & effective. If they didn't sell in great numbers, there'd be no explaining the number of brands selling them and the range of places you can find them sold.
The question is a lot simpler than you seem to suggest.
The typical one-use space blanket on the market in the UK goes for 1.50-2.50 gbp (some cheaper some more expensive) and weighs between 50-100g depending on dimensions and packaging. Many of us agree that they are next to useless in windy, wet, typical UK mountain weather. They struggle to keep you dry, disintegrate and flap about uncontrollably.
The space poncho costs roughly double that. Still six or seven times cheaper and 2.4 times lighter than the (undoubtedly more protective) blizzard jacket (which you'll note has a hood!).
The question in my mind is whether the space poncho is worth the price & weight difference compared to a regular space blanket. Not to the up-market products costing many times more. I would say 'yes' having given one closer inspection... you may not agree.
The hood issue is critical. You're right to say that there's a lot of misinformation about heat loss from the head. But what the original, oft misquoted studies actually showed was that if the body was properly insulated then a large proportion of the remaining heat loss was from the head and neck rather than through the insulation. If you've got stuck without proper rain gear & proper insulation... likelihood is that you'll be glad of a hood! It's not just that either... having a hood means that a good proportion of the rain won't end up running down the neckline inside the poncho reducing the insulation of whatever you're wearing underneath. I'm sure that all the survival advice you'll have ever seen or read included covering the head and neck and staying dry if possible.
I understand your misgivings about the product Trev... but I stand by what I said. At the disposable, entry level end of the market this is the best I've seen by a long margin. And it's also good enough for me to consider packing one when I've long considered space blankets of limited use.
Ok - Alex sent me a free sample. But £3.50 worth of product is not going to buy my loyalty and have me put my name behind something that I don't consider useful. I've been given kit worth a lot more than that and still been able to be constructively critical of it. If I'd thought it was rubbish... I would have diplomatically told Alex what I thought of it and left him to get on with trying to sell it. As I consider it to be worth the money and a novel retake on a tired concept, I took the time to post about it here.
I don't want to wade into the debate, to try and justify the poncho because I am sure all of you have a greater depth of experience than I will ever have. I do appreciate John's words and I wouldn't have it any other way than his being completely honest, otherwise how would I be able to be subjective! All of your input is most welcome and the info is being filed away, hopefully to be used to good effect in the future. However one thing needs to be pointed out. The reflectiveness of the metalized PET, can also be used to possibly save a life because of it's visability from distance and from the air. I have considered the possibily of printing some sort of logo, be it commercial or be it emergency, in a reflective ink, onto the poncho, which would also raise it's visability. The last point is that it is already in the market and the proof of the pudding, is whether it will sell. Only time will tell!
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. You're brave & noble taking them out then! Kit check like that when I was a schoolkid was seen as the opportunity to try to hide a large rock in your mate's bag... taking stuff out would have gone against the grain!
Yes, we were with you there on the kind of probable costs Simon.
