I have developed a space poncho which is made from the same foil ie: Metalized BOPP which is used widely in the manufature of the Space blanket, which most hikers know of and carry as an emergency item in case of injury or hypothermia. Having studied the uses of the blanket I am sure that the poncho has its place. It can be folded down to the same size as the blanket. It does the identical job and has the added advantage that you can still move around with it on and also gives protection to the head and neck. The added advantage is that it is waterproof. I believe that the space poncho should be an item that is kept in every first aid kit, alongside the space blanket. This item has never been seen before and I would really appreciate input from everyone.
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| Edited: 27/01/09 18:01 |
.JPG)  Sounds a bit noisy.
Where can we see/purchase this item? Would be interested... How do you fix the sides?
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 Might be better off marketing it initially to the sports industry, particularly organisers of fun runs/marathons and the like. (If you hadn't already thought about it?)
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Hi, Thanks for the comment! We thought about that but feel that the emergency services industry is a better bet first off. In a large proportion of trauma cases the patients are not badly injured but in shock and need be covered. The Space blanket does this job but the patient in a lot of cases does not listen too well and therefore doesn't keep the blanket around themselves affectively. The poncho will do this and keep head and neck warm to guard against hypothermia.
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Wondering how it keeps the head and neck warm, is it hooded?
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Hi, Yes it has a hood and a flap in the front to keep your mouth and neck warm and dry
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| Edited: 28/01/09 08:01 |
Thanks Alex, sounds like good potential, what's it weigh? How about a full length hooded bag that also protects feet and legs, so more of an emergency shelter, or does someone already make these in this material?
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Hi, It will weigh approximately 53 gm. The idea of the hooded bag is a great one! I think there are variations of this out there. I think you will understand when I say that it is something that will evolve at a later stage. I need to be 100% sure that the poncho is accepted and state of the art, first. The Space Blanket is 12 microns thick and the poncho is 20 microns thick. A good bit more hardy!
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 my thoughts: standard space blankets are generally too fragile (prone to tear) for outdoors uses. A 20micron blanket of any design is likely to be an improvement IMO. Adventure Medical Kits produce a metallized polyethelyene (presumably BoPET rather than BOPP) bivvy bag weighing around 100g. I own their more robust (and about twice as heavy) Thermo-Lite 2 Bivvy which is easily repacked & I have slept in mine with reasonable comfort. Of course, you can't walk in these and I agree that a hooded poncho could be a potential mid-point between the flappy space blanket and the bivvy bag design. Heavier versions already exist in one form or another... http://www.nitro-pak.com/product_info.php?products_id=623 http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=CW%20P250&bhcd2=1233135230 So if you want to enter this (already pretty saturated) market then your product had better be 1) tougher than standard space blanket; 2) more functional than the cheap non-metallized polyethylene ponchos (as given away on theme park water rides etc.) and 3) lighter than the existing metallized ponchos. Quite a tall order. I look forward to seeing what you can come up with as your design sounds as if it has a lot of potential. John
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That is the reason I suggested the "sports" market John. I didn't want to sound negative, but the medical profession has moved away from using thin foil space blankets due to the fact that they do not warm people, they tend to keep core temperature at whatever it started at, (or at least form a barrier to slow temperature exchange) so it is really not effective for hypodermic patients and the ONLY benefit is that for expedition type backpacking it saves space and weight. That is why I suggested the sports market and particularly the "running" angle, it would be effective at slowing the temperature exchange of HOT runners, allowing a more controlled "warm down." I fear you might be onto a loser if you concentrate on the medical market!
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| Edited: 28/01/09 12:06 |
 What does it do that my normal hill kit doesn't? I can't really see a use. Waterproof? I carry waterproofs. Shelter? I carry a bothy bag.
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 You're going to have a devil of a job convincing experts of the backpacking world like Chris Townsend for instance who has at various times written off the basic foil metal hypothermia blankts as fairly useless items for hiking use, saying they should be more left to sports uses such as running marathons etc. I've an article around here where he definitely says exactly this and I tend to agree with him too really. I find the blankets are noisy, have no wind resistance and tend to blow away or be wind damaged very easily outdoors on the hill. That is why I changed over to using Adventure Medical kit stuff myself as well, and too carry a blizzard bag for emergenmcy uses. 
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 If I do carry a metal foil blanket it is to give away to any casualty I might meet outdoors who has been fool enough to go out unprepared.
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Tony (cysgod-du), I am curious. Surely ANY passive means of insulating a hypothermia victim relies on slowing their heat exchange with the environment to the point at which heat being generated from the core & (hopefully still shivering) muscles exceeds heat being lost? If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the space blanket doesn't really achieve this goal. That doesn't surprise me; after all they are intended to be a radiant heat barrier and unless there's a big difference between skin (or clothing surface) temperature & ambient then this heat loss mode isn't the most important. They work well at sporting events precisely because the athletes have generated a lot of excess heat during the exercise phase and are wearing minimal clothing. Wrapping yourself in a space blanket when your skin is hot and the surroundings are cold will certainly help to avoid crash-cooling. That said, when I did the London Marathon it was a cold soggy day so I left my old Rab down jacket in my kit bag to pick up at the finish, knowing the space blanket would do the job of keeping the worst of the rain off until I could meet up with my family. The space blanket clad competitors were evidently much less comfortable than I was! However, if the blanket remains intact it does serve some beneficial functions so I still give a bit of backpack space to them. For one thing, you can sling it on over all other layers which can give them a chance to dry out a bit underneath. We all know by now that the breathability of membranes is much improved when the face fabrics are dry. This is one idea behind Furtech's recent ShellTa product. I imagine that it's also quite handy for SAR purposes; although I was once told that reflective surfaces can easily blend into their surroundings unless there's bright light directly reflecting off them. In general I agree with Tony that this kind of product is best applied in scenarios where you simply don't have the usual array of backup kit at your disposal. If you were fell running, for example, I suspect you wouldn't have waterproofs & a bothy bag but you could probably find a corner for a 100g poncho. Just as an aside for Alex; I work in the space industry. In actual fact we insulate our spacecraft with mylar & kapton sheets of varying numbers of metallized layers. I have no idea of costs or weight per m2 but there is a version of aluminium-coated mylar that includes fine threads (like ripstop) forming a grid of reinforcement. It's many times harder to rip this stuff than the fragile 'space blanket' and tears don't run through the fabric. Unfortunately, I've only got a tiny bit left from a project I managed with a local school when I was in the UK. And I'm not sure what it was called. But it might be a good option for your product. John
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Hi, Thank you all for your comments, they are all valuable and I will take note of all that has been said. Just a couple of points. The main function of the poncho is for emergency situations and I must disagree slightly with Chris Townsend because here in South Africa the emergency space blankets are used extensively in all situations and have a very real function, which is to keep the patient warm until help arrives. It is used by all of the emergency units for outdoor accidents both on the road and in bush and mountain call outs, as well as the air rescue units. The whole idea of the poncho is that it is used solely for emergencies and because it is more functional then the blanket, will not be blown off you and at the same time it will allow freedom of movement while still doing the core function, that is to keep you warm. It has the added benefit of also keeping your head and neck warm and the whole body dry. Accepted, it will not be for everyone but what product is? An experienced hiker would on the whole either like it or not but inexperienced hikers who either cannot afford expensive gear or who don't bother may have their life saved by this product. Who knows?
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Something like a proper MPI Allweather Space Blanket type product as a ponco already exists I thought in the USA.
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There is also a jacket version of the Blizzard bag too don't forget.
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Hi John, Thank you for your very informative message. I am looking at a version of the BOPP which has three layers incorporating polyethylene which will give the product more tear strength and still function properly. I think that one of the factors that also needs to be considered is price. At the end of the day I know that experienced hikers will pay anything , if the product is right. This is great and I will definitely look at this market, however the vast majority of the market is extremely price sensitive and I am trying reach this segment without losing performance from the product. As far as I know there is no-one else with a lightweight 53mg poncho which has these features anywhere in the world. Any further suggestions are most welcome.
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Alex, don't forget that the responses on this thread have mostly come from folk living in the UK and, in particular, its hilly, windy, wet parts! For years people carried these things (and continue to do so) without realising how ineffective they can be in OUR weather conditions. 1) they disintegrate even when kept in their original packaging. Every one I have opened up after a few years has been virtually useless as it has worn out along the fold lines. 2) they tear easily (even if they haven't suffered from being stored in a pack) and 3) they don't cope well with windy conditions as it's very hard to keep them wrapped around your body. If your poncho overcomes these three problems by being more robust and better designed to fit a person in windy weather, then you might find a market. The UK tradition is to carry a large orange poly bag to crawl into; and the 'modern' approach is something like the AMK bag I listed above with the Blizzard Bag providing even more protection. Blizzard also make a jacket that is likely to be a lot warmer than any single-layer space blanket poncho. Know your market & know your competition... If that is confined to SA, then you'll have a lot more knowledge than us; but if you are asking what works in the UK then I suspect you'll find that most of us have had similar experiences with space blankets. John
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| Edited: 28/01/09 13:45 |
