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Hot threads > [Walking and Climbing]

Dartmoor. Steeperton last Sunday.
 
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Dartmoor. Steeperton last Sunday.
The army spoilt my walk - grumble.
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21 to 40 of 96 messagesPage: 1  2  3  4  5  
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Frum
26/06/09 23:17
MoS wrote (see)

Couldn't the firing notice contain information about their activities (even though it's off range and not live firing) so people could stay clear?  I'd have appreciated having that information and gone elsewhere, although I suppose it could draw in onlookers and I'm not sure if they'd want that.

As I read it, all Mossy was asking for was better communications.
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Mick w.
26/06/09 23:27
 Hill-walking hero 1307 forum posts 1 review

IS that a Merlin? Looks more like a Puma to me.

Not that it matters, just being slightly pedantic.

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Ray Britton
27/06/09 11:03
 Hill-walking hero 612 forum posts 16 photos 4 reviews 1 bookmark

Hi Mick w.

Don't worry, you are not being pedantic at all. You are just plain wrong

It's a Merlin HC3 as used by the RAF (rather than the  HM MK1 used by the RN).

To be honest, from a very long distance the Puma and merlin may be confused.

But the Merlin is a much bigger aircraft than the puma, and has a higher set tail boom and a five bladed main rotor (see pic).

If I were to be pedantic too I would say that the Merlin sounds "newer*" and smoother as it has three engines compared to the Puma's two. 

*The Puma's sound older as it must be remembered that they are actually VERY old airframes. If one thinks of a Puma as being similar in age to  MK3/MK4 Cortina then that is about correct.

 Oops, sorry I slipped into pedant mode there

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Fossil Bluff
27/06/09 15:01

Spotter

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Ray Britton
27/06/09 15:26
 Hill-walking hero 612 forum posts 16 photos 4 reviews 1 bookmark

Hi Fossil.

Oh yes I am a spotter all right!

I feel the need to confess.

In fact I am soooo bad, that the 300 aviation videos I have  (yes I still have VHS!) are known as plane porn in my house.

Although in seriousness, I learned to fly (fixed wing) at a young age, and have been hooked ever since.  Throughout my military career I also worked with helicopters a fair bit.

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caveman john
27/06/09 22:29
Plane spotting... I didn't that was a pastime till I found a certain hillside in wales full of people doing just that.
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Jester*
28/06/09 00:27
 Winter Mountaineer 1890 forum posts 79 photos 10 reviews

Hmmmm, you could just have asked what was going on, I'm sure someone would have been glad to help. It seems that they complied with what was on the website, and that seems pretty reasonable to start with.

I don't have a problem with low flying aircraft, troops on exercise (who by the way, aren't confined to range areas for this) or any other facet of military training.

It's almost certain that these guys would have been TA and in this day and age it's vital they get as much training as possible.

With it being armed forces day yesterday, perhaps we should consider how fortunate we are.

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Ray Britton
28/06/09 00:35
 Hill-walking hero 612 forum posts 16 photos 4 reviews 1 bookmark
Originally posted by Grendel

With it being armed forces day yesterday, perhaps we should consider how fortunate we are.

 Well said that poster

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Ron Wild
28/06/09 20:14
 Lowland rambler 6 forum posts 2 reviews
Soldiers have to train, if they don't they die. Do you want the deaths of soldiers on your conscience because you believe you have the right to a quiet Sunday. You have the rest of the country to walk in, so why quibble over one moor. Some of there expeditions fighting the enemy last more than seven days and this needs to be trained for.
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Ron Wild
28/06/09 20:16
 Lowland rambler 6 forum posts 2 reviews
Oops a wrong there in there. Many apologies to any pedants reading.
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Fossil Bluff
28/06/09 21:24
Ron Wild wrote (see)
Soldiers have to train, if they don't they die. Do you want the deaths of soldiers on your conscience because you believe you have the right to a quiet Sunday. You have the rest of the country to walk in, so why quibble over one moor. Some of there expeditions fighting the enemy last more than seven days and this needs to be trained for.


 

Hi Ron

I dont thinkl the OP was disputing that buddy  

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Frum
28/06/09 21:27
... and I think even those who originally implied that training should be on weekdays only changed their minds whe the TA was mentioned.
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Fossil Bluff
28/06/09 21:33

number one rifle group

300 m

bushy top tree

enemy sitting in it

rapid.................

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Fire!

Which was a real shame because although group, range, indication and target works well, when given in a clear / loud manner as an order with pauses.......... But:

a) I never had the luck to be in number 1 rifle group

b) Those bushy topped trees must have got a hammering

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Ray Britton
28/06/09 21:51
 Hill-walking hero 612 forum posts 16 photos 4 reviews 1 bookmark

Hey fossil you are showing your age (see what I did there).

Not only have rifle and gun groups been superseded with fire teams, but with personal role radios there is no need to shout either (as it tends to betray your presence before the first shot!)

Apart from that, it was a good post.

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Fossil Bluff
28/06/09 21:55

Thats OK Ray  I am former RAF so it would all be lost on a crab like me anyway.

Edited to add - yeah saw what you did

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Edited: 28/06/09 21:56
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Ray Britton
29/06/09 09:49
 Hill-walking hero 612 forum posts 16 photos 4 reviews 1 bookmark

Hi Fossil.

Are you willing to share your old light blue trade, either via Pm or in here?

I'm only curious, nothing malicious*.

*Although after your "edited to add", which gave me a chuckle, I was tempted to ask if you were a "rock", fossil.

Edited to add - I bet you have never heard that one before!!!

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MoS
29/06/09 10:37

A little bit of googling tells me that meetings of The Dartmoor Steering Group and Working Party is where a lot of decisions about Dartmoor are made. It includes representatives from many groups which have an interest in using the moor.

The military get to use the moor for training purposes within limits and they must take into account impact on the environment, farming and public access.  I'm sure they must have some interesting and heated  debates, I'm sure it must be very difficult for everyone - DNPA, representatives from the Military, Duchy of Cornwall, English Heritage, Natural England - to get what they want out of any deal.

I wonder how the conversation goes when they're discussing public access.  I'd like to feel that I have a voice in that discussion, that someone is there representing those like me, who use the moor for walking. I'd hope that everyone get's an opportunity to express their views.  I'd hope that people would be encouraged to express their points of view, whether it be the views from farmers, walkers, photographers, those with interests in the environment, archaeology, wildlife....as well as those who need to train the military.  I'd hope it would be possible to question some of the military activity without being slapped down and accused of wanting to send troops into battle without adequate training.

I'd hoped we could have that sort of constructive debate on OM.  But no, apparently I should examine my conscience, I should walk elsewhere, I should feel guilty for even raising the issue. What rubbish. Suggesting a link between my posts and putting people's lives at risk is way out of order.

Some people have used very emotive language to express themselves and add weight to their argument.  I have never objected to continued military activity on Dartmoor, but I do think that all interested parties have a right to be heard when decisions are being made.  Some of you may feel that the military should have priority over everyone else. They may well have a high priority but they have to work within limitations and that's where discussion and compromise come in. 

However passionately some folk feel about this issue, I object to having my words twisted in order for them to make a point.

Thank you for the more measured responses.  I appreciate Fossil and Frummy's posts, it would have been even more upsetting to come back after the weekend and see how this thread had gone without those. And cheers for that link a bit further back, Caveman John, it was very relevant to what I set out to discuss.

"If a dry tactical exercise is expected to cause significant inconvenience, details are given on the firing notice and sentries are posted to give warning to other users."

So there is a system in place to warn the public of dry firing. I wasn't aware of that, in fact I didn't know it was called 'dry firing' until now.  I haven't seen a warning posted on the firing notice whenever I've looked on line.

I suppose it depends on how you interpret 'significant inconvenience'. There were no warnings last Sunday, my personal preference is still to know when any dry firing is taking place so I can plan in advance to avoid it.

Dartmoor is a fantastic place, hopefuly everyone can continue to share it, whether for military training, work, sport, leisure or your own special interest.

And there I think I'll leave it.

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Mole
29/06/09 11:08

MoS

Thanks for your measured post  - sorry I couldn't be more constructive - maybe even generating some of the more negative responses.  

I've not ever seen a warning online or in newspaper notifications about dry firing either.

How are people supposed to be able to avoid it if it's not advertised effectively. 

Except on the actual day - as happened with MoS.

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Frum
29/06/09 12:56
I've just had the Red Arrows fly low and noisy over my garden.  (Honest, I guess they were landing at Biggin Hill, where they performed at the air show this weekend).  Should the South East London National Park Authority have given me prior warning?
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Mole
29/06/09 13:12
Yes
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