Hi there, I al new to this forum but I have read an awful lot of reactions of you guys, which looked good so I decided to join! I am going on a trip to Scotland this summer and for that I need a sleeping bag but I don't know which one would be better suited. Having read a lot of stuff on sleeping bags, I finally have narrowed my choice down to two sleeping bags: 1 the yeti fusion 500 (en rating: comfort: +3, limit comfort: -3, extreme: -17) 2 the yeti fusion 750 (en rating: comfor: -3, limit comfort: -9, extreme: -27 I think I am a relatively normal sleeper (as far as warmth goes), maybe a bit warmer than normal. Probably I won't be hiking in the winter or at high altitudes. Basically my question is: which bag is more versatile, which bag would suffice for Norway/ Finland but also for hiking in Germany and England? Or is this demand not realistic? Hopefully you can help me out!
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 Hi ! Not had any experience of the Yeti sleeping bags but just had a quick butchers at the 750. The temperature ranges look a bit confusing with the three different levels but I reckon the 750 which has 750g of 700+ fill power 90% down is going to be pretty warm. Now normally I'd go off the EN rating (european standard) but thats only rated at -3 and I'd expect this sort of filling to be more -10c so what they have given as the "limit comfort" sounds more like it. This bag is going to be way too hot for summer so I'd go for the fusion 500 which should be OK for most 3 season adventures, possibly still a bit hot for summer but more versatile than the 750. Any reason why you're thinking of the Yeti range rather than the usual Rab / ME / PHD suspects. Looks a good bag, expensive too tho !
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If the temp ratings are like my fella's Mountain Equipment bag, I believe the first one is a limit for a comfortably without cooking, the second is the outer limit for a woman sleeping comfortably, and the last is the one where you are so cold that you can't sleep, but it will stop you getting hyperthermia. But I could be wrong!? I would imagine that neither bag would be suitable for a hot summers night... It's a bit like trial and error with sleeping bags. I didnt think I slept cold until I bought a bag and nearly shiverred to death and found that I probably sleep abotu 10 degrees colder than an average rating!
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Any reason why you're thinking of the Yeti range rather than the usual Rab / ME / PHD suspects. Looks a good bag, expensive too tho !
Thanks for the advise. I tried the bag in a shop and compared it to an ajungilak (not really a fair compotator i guess). I found that the yeti was really comfortable because it has more spacious, the salesman also told me that this goes for all yeti bag, which I liked. The reason that I am not going for PHD is that they don't sell it in the shop where I can get a discount. I have heard there pretty good... . An other reason is that the salesman told me that yeti is a top notch brand (but he didn't compare it to ME). ME classic 500 is also still an option want you say about this bag, any experiences? Would you say Rab or ME is better?
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It depends which Rab bag you're comparing it with, but on a whole I'd say Rab is better but then you pays more money for one
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If you could wait a bit then PHD normally have a sale in August with great discounts off some lines. They're the best bags I've seen, although I've never encountered the Yeti ones and so can't compare directly. However, 700+ fp down, although good, isn't anywhere near as warm for the weight as the 800 or 900fp PHD use. If you like a roomier bag then the PHD Combi would be ideal, and it's been in the last couple of sales. It's rated to -4C, and I reckon it's a bit warmer than that.
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I guess it's comparable to the atlas 500 (which is about the same price) or the quantum 400 endurance as far as temperature rating goes. But there outer shell might be more water repellent. I ones read somewhere that pertex and drylite don't breath as well as polyester and nylon, what are your experiences? What makes Rab such a good sleeping bag in your opinoin?
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If you could wait a bit then PHD normally have a sale in August with great discounts off some lines. They're the best bags I've seen, although I've never encountered the Yeti ones and so can't compare directly. However, 700+ fp down, although good, isn't anywhere near as warm for the weight as the 800 or 900fp PHD use. If you like a roomier bag then the PHD Combi would be ideal, and it's been in the last couple of sales. It's rated to -4C, and I reckon it's a bit warmer than that. To bad I can't wait that long, I am going in the beginning of August. Also I am not sure whether the PHD bags are for sale in the Netherlands, are they? Thanks for all the advise so far!
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 Calculating the total potential loft (T/L) the Yeti Fusion 500 (T/L 11666) should be warmer than the PHD Minim 400 (T/L 10666) and the RAB Quantum 400 (T/L 9999) but not as warm as the ME Xero 550 (T/L 12833). The Yeti Fusion 750 (T/L 17500) should be warmer than the PHD Minim 600 (T/L 16000) the RAB Quantum 600 (T/L 15000) and the same as the ME Xero 750 (T/L17500) The T/L figures only give the maximium Potential Loft (more loft equals more warmth)possible for each of the bags. Other factors play a part such as Fabrics/Design but Total Loft gives you a pretty good starting point. I find that the EN rating is more in line with my own requirements than other ratings.
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| Edited: 01/07/09 00:05 |
Calculating the total potential loft (T/L) the Yeti Fusion 500 (T/L 11666) should be warmer than the PHD Minim 400 (T/L 10666) and the RAB Quantum 400 (T/L 9999) but not as warm as the ME Xero 550 (T/L 12833). The Yeti Fusion 750 (T/L 17500) should be warmer than the PHD Minim 600 (T/L 16000) the RAB Quantum 600 (T/L 15000) and the same as the ME Xero 750 (T/L17500) The T/L figures only give the maximium Potential Loft (more loft equals more warmth)possible for each of the bags. Other factors play a part such as Fabrics/Design but Total Loft gives you a pretty good starting point. I find that the EN rating is more in line with my own requirements than other ratings.
The figures you give are different then the ones given on websites by the manufacturers. I know that is because they use different rating systems. According to Rab the quantum must be warmer then the Yeti fusion 500. This T/L seems an interesting system, how is the T/L calculated? It looks like it's more fair.
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| Edited: 01/07/09 11:43 |
I phoned PHD to ask about their next sale. I was told it should be in september.
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It's pretty simple, The Fill Power is given as a figure which relates to how much space a given amount of down can fill when lofted under a fixed weight*. Usually it's approx 30g of down so 700 Fill Power means that 30g of the down used can occupy a space of 700 cubic inches, better lofting down would fill a greater space and would be graded as e.g. 800 Fill Power and so on. If you look at a bag that has 750g of 800 Fill Power Down you divide 750g by 30g to give you the total number of 30g units, as each 30g unit can occupy a space of 800 cuin multiplying the number of units by 800 gives you the maximum amount of space that the down will fill. e.g. A bag with 900g of 750 Fill Power Down. 900 divided by 30 = 30 (units) 750 x 30 = 21000 If you check out the Cumulus Website you'll find more about it. *You may also see Fill Power expressed as US or EU, the difference is down to the type of machine used to measure the down quality, basically the US system used a lighter weight which allows the down to loft easier. EU rated down is basically better but not by a huge amount. The other thing to bear in mind when considering the really high Fill Power ratings is that Down is a natural material not subject to advances in technology. Geese and Ducks haven't simply decided to grow higher specification down, so improvements are either due to increased efficency in the collecting process or in the pre-treatment. Down is treated in a variety of ways prior to being graded, some techniques give a higher figure than others and some give a figure which more accurately reflects how close the down will be to achieving it's potential once it starts being used. The link below has plenty of information. [u]http://www.idfl.com/default.asp[/u] (International Down & Feather Testing Laboratory) Remember that Fill Power is basically a standard calibrated measurement of performance in much the same way as MPH/KPH is a measurement of speed, if it's rated at 750 EU Fill Power then thats what it is and won't change from one brand to another in the same way that 100mph/kph is the same regardless of whether it's a Tractor or a Ferrari.
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Another point that needs to taken into account when working out total loft or how good a sleeping bag is, is the down to feather ratio . These Yeti bags use 90/10 down to feather ratio, where the best insulation comes from down not the feather. So a filling of 750g of 90/10 down only gives you 675g of actual down. The ME Xero uses 93/7 quality, Rab Quantum 96/4 can't find the figures for PHD but I imagine up at the top end of the scale.
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Geez, that sounds really useful! Thanks guys. So all in all you would recommend the Yeti fusion 500 (as far as temperature goes)? Then I probably will need a liner (fleece, is the warmest I have heard) if I go to Finland or Norway in the Spring or Autumn, right? How warm will a fleece liner be?
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You're probably better off with a down vest or light jacket for adding warmth to the bag. A vest like the Ultra from PHD (sorry to bring up that name again!) is reckoned to add about 5C to a bag's rating, and I can quite believe that figure. Quite a few other firms do similar vests. An advantage of this approach is that the vest/jacket can be used when you're not in your bag.
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| Edited: 01/07/09 14:00 |
Well up to a point but the down/feather ratio is already taken into account when the 'Down' is being graded, they don't start with 100% down clusters and then add the feathers at the point of manufacture. The loft (and weight) is dependant on the down clusters otherwise you could go as low as 75/25 ratio and still achieve a Fill Power of 800. Obviously the higher the standar the better (all things being equal) but at 90% + down cluster, fabric and design is likely to have a significantly greater effect on performance. Of course when everything is taken into account, Fill Power, Down/Feather ratio, Pre-Conditioning, fabric and design, fill ratio top/bottom etc etc it illustrates the benefit of the EN standard which measures the performance of the finished product. The benefit of the calculating the T/L is seen if you look at the temp rating used by the different manufacturers and translate that into EN figures. You'll find that when you translate the Temp figures and then calculate the T/L value that the top end bags all end up much the same. FWIW EN ratings are about 6-8 deg C more conservative than Leeds Uni figures.
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Geez, that sounds really useful! Thanks guys. So all in all you would recommend the Yeti fusion 500 (as far as temperature goes)?
The problem as far as recommending Yeti is concerned is that they aren't available in the UK, certainly going on the spec they're a quality bag. In the UK PHD are the highest Spec manufacturer IMO (you do pay a premium though and bags from RAB, ME are still top end products)
I'd agree with Guy above, use a down jacket or vest to upgrade your bag when needed. I'd go for something from PHD or ME (in fact I have an ME Xero 250 bag and Xero Jacket) but in your case the Yeti jackets/vests are probably just as effective. Something like, http://www.yetiworld.com/en/produkte/fashion/lightweight/purity.html or, http://www.yetiworld.com/en/produkte/fashion/lightweight/solace.html
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It's not that I per se want a Yeti, it's just that I can get the Yeti, ME (classic, glacies, helium) or Rab with a discount. I have tried a Yeti and there really comfortable so hence my choice. PHD is not really an option because it is too expansive and I can't wait untill september for the sales (thanks for calling Alastair). But the ME's and Rab are still a possibilty. I am going to purchase one friday, so I have to make up my mind (choices sigh...).
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I think as far as Yeti, ME or Rab go they're all quality and you're not going to go far wrong with any. Nice situation to be in !!
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