Gear

whilst i sympathise with your plight micahel why do you think the shop should be able to read your mind as to your intentions and what use you are to put your purchases to? would you have the same attitude if you were walking out of the shop with a pair of shoes the wrong size? you didn't try this sack on? if it's the wrong size it wouldn't have fitted properly so why did you buy it?

excellent customer service would have allowed you to change your sack purchase without quibble if they had one in stock. but that's the only reason why they should. you not paying attention is not their problem.

intead of enquiring through the shop you approach the manufacturuer directly and are perfectly happy to return to this shop to have your feet measured. the shop, in my opinion quite rightly, get miffed about this. they are not your personal gear measurement service when you bypass them.

I was thinking along the same lines, Parky but perhaps something has been "lost in translation". Perhaps Asolo would be supplying the boots through the shop? if not, I'm in complete agreement with you.

About 18 months ago I went to a local independent with a high reputation to have my feet measured for a pair of Scarpa ZG65 with the full intention of offering my excuses and then buying them more cheaply online. In the event, the service was so good and my conscience so troubled that I decided to buy them in the shop without even asking the price. When I came to pay I was surprised to find they had been reduced to £70, a few quid cheaper than the cheapest price online. 

The shop has become my favourite gear shop.

"what use you are to put your purchases to?"

If I buy a rucksack, my intention is to carry it on my back, nothing else. I did not try the sack on, but remembered Berghaus make different sizes. Why didn't the employee know about this???? 

I also once went in the shop to enquire about boots to climb Kili. I was wearing some DocMartens and the chap in the shop suggested these would be fine for the entire trek except summit day. Great advice again.

I went over my initial msg and clarify a few things below:

(...) 

I went in again some years ago to enquire about 4-season boots for Kili. The employee suggested I would be fine with the DocMartens I was wearing then but did suggest I needed something better for summit day. Great advice or what?

Then in 2008, I went there to buy a Berghaus expedition rucksack. I bought the bag and after a couple of steps in the direction of the exit door I remembered that Berghaus make 2 different size of this bag and that I needed to check I'd bought the right size. I did not. I wonder why the shop did not advise me I was buying the wrong size when they clearly saw how big I am? The store refused to give me a refund because their policy is to give a voucher instead. I then went home with the voucher but made sure they understood I needed the bag within the next 6 weeks as I was going on holiday and needed the bag before then. I got an email message later from them saying the delivery date for the bag would 2 days before my departure. Seeing as this would mean my whole trip might be jeopardised despite the long notice I gave them of nearly 6 weeks, I asked for a refund and they categorically refused. I finally got the bag about 3 weeks later, not without a lot of emailing back and forth and stress.

Another bad experience happened to me this week that shows their level of contempt for customers and their abysmal grasp of customer service. I approached a number of makers of HA boots for a trip I'm doing in Nepal in April. Asolo (now part of Alpine Lowe) got back to me with an offer to sell me boots at a discounted price. Being 6ft6, they wanted me to get my feet measured professionally by one of their dealers and asked if I could pop into that same shop to have this done. The lady at Alpine Lowe sent the shop an email advising them about this matter and asking them if they would kindly do this and then send or phone her the measurements. I was a regular customer of this shop despite the 1st incidents and I naively thought this would not be a problem. The employees of the shop were helpful enough and measured my feet. But, then, the shop's "boss" came out and put on an act saying he did not understand what was asked of him either by the Alpine Lowe lady or myself despite clear explanations that were given to him. He eventually suggested I went to the UK and had the measurements done by the lady herself. Very helpful.

nothing wrong with the advice except you didn't like it because it was too simple? you can walk up kili in doc martens boots. you can walk up it in trainers if you want to except for the summit day when something a bit sturdier may be appropriate.

sorry, you bought the wrong sack. why is it anyone's problem except yours? they didn't have the one you wanted in stock. they were happy to provide you with the sack but not refund you for your error. where's the problem? as you hadn't tried the sack on what was wrong with it? well, nothing simply because you hadn't tried it on. why would a larger sack be better? would it fit better? how would you know? a sack for an expedition that you haven't tried on? serves you right.

why should the shop read your mind. people buy the "wrong" sack all the time simply because the "wrong" one fits.

were you buying these discounted price boots from the manufacturer or from the shop? i've no idea why you height has anything to do with your feet.

if you were buying fom the manufacturer why on earth would you expect the shop to do anything?

I agree with Parky - up to the last point.

If the boot manufacturer asked the dealer to make the measurements...then surely that it between the dealer and manufacturer to sort out any recompense (presuming the boots arent actually being bought from the dealer)?

Seems like a complete breakdown in  communication to me

The lack of refund for unused returned goods is rubbish customer service esp as the OP is a regular.

However:

Small shops need all the help they can get and threads like this don't help esp as the other issues the OP has appear to be related to being inexperienced and a bit naive as regards gear purchases (e.g. not trying a rucksack before purchase is just daft.)

"if you were buying fom the manufacturer why on earth would you expect the shop to do anything?"

Why was the manufacturer's request for a favour ignored?

"i've no idea why you height has anything to do with your feet."

I also said I'm big. Read the post again.

"they were happy to provide you with the sack but not refund you for your error. where's the problem?"

Read my post again. They said they only could deliver the bag 2 days before my departure. Too much of a risk I'd not have a big when I left.

Where did I say I was going on a nexpedition then. I said holiday. Read my post again.

Poor reading comprehension skills? 

Michael Garvin wrote (see)

Where did I say I was going on a nexpedition then. I said holiday. Read my post again.

Poor reading comprehension skills? 

Michael Garvin wrote (see)

It is now clear to me, this rather small provincial shop has never dealt with any expedition before and completely fails to understand how a lot of what expeditions are about are meeting some tailor-made requirements and dealing with gear manufacturers direct.

I exactly know the culture that surrounds these forums: cheap point scoring.

As I said, the employees of Trekplus very kindly did help with the measurements.

Read my post again. 

Michael Garvin wrote (see)

Read my post again. 

There you go - I'm not the first person in this thread you've found it necessary to say that to. Perhaps you should reflect on whether you could have written it differently, and whether when you requested Trekplus to return your money you should have worded your request (demand?) differently.

I bought some pants from treckplus last year, no problems they happened to be the only shop that had the size I wanted.

Michael Garvin wrote (see)

I exactly know the culture that surrounds these forums: cheap point scoring.

The general culture here is to share information and contribute to a community who enjoy the outdoors. I have largely taken more than I contribute here, but I ask questions and for advice and that's what I get. Same as most forums really.

When people come on and slag off retailers/manufacturers and that is there only contribution, then quite rightly there opinions hold little weight. Especially when they appear to be blaming others for there own mistakes.

As for buying boots, the only good advice can be to try on lots of pairs to see which fits best, rather than just aiming for one specific brand. If you have large feet and a local shop is unlikely to carry the stock to allow you to do that, then a visit to the mainland actually seems fair advice. 

It seems to me the problem is not the service you received but that you were not treated as the very special person you seem to believe you are.

no point scoring michael. just trying to get to the truth.

"I also said I'm big" means you have big feet? fair enough.

"Why was the manufacturer's request for a favour ignored?" why were you dealing directly with the manufacturer and not the shop? if the shop isn't making any money out it. why should they? you want someone to come round and measure your kitchen up when you're not buying a new kitchen from them?

you bought a sack. you decided it may have been the wrong size. so far you haven't told us why it was the wrong size. it didn't fit? how did you know when you hadn't tried it on? it was the wrong size on a whim. lets face it. you cocked up. you're miffed that you cocked up so you want to blame someone else for your own mistake.

I would be willing to pay anyone who comes round my house, but that was not what happened. Are you sure you're not trying to score cheap points??

I did say why I knew it was the wrong size, come on!! Because Berghaus make 2 different sizes and I simply looked at the label. The problem was not the mistake I made but being told I can't get a refund and being givena delivery date that was 2 days before I left.

READ MY POSTS AGAIN. 

Michael....just a minor....but salient point.

I am a touch under 6 foot tall....and have size 12 feet (OK, depends on the make, sometimes an 11) - point being hieght and foot size are unrelated, unlike the length or the forearm and foot which seem to be!