Once you're into a bothy, you're hopefully out of the wind and the damp, but its still important to be wearing the right clothes. Perhaps what you've walked in wearing is wet and sweaty, or too lightweight to keep you comfortable when static. So what is in the stuff sack in the bottom of your bag?
I've got bothy slippers from Forty Below, generally a fresh baselayer, tracksuit bottoms.
Any suggestions for warm jackets / smocks. Doesn't have to be crazy light, just super warm, and for my money, not down.
My apologies, I didn't mean to stifle debate. I've just always been too much of worrier to invest in a down jacket. I worry about cost, moisture and compressing it.
What make have you got Pete, and is down really that much warmer than synthetic?
Cost... well they're not generally cheap, but deals can be found (mine and my wife's were significant percentages off), and if you look after them they should last a long time. Down lasts much better than current synthetics.
Moisture... there shouldn't be that much inside a bothy. While I can see a synthetic might be more use as a general hill-jacket in the UK, for breaks inside shelter it's not much of an issue, especialyy if you get one with a water-resistant shell.
Compressing... not really a worry. Unless you're stuffing it in and unpacking many times a day I can't see it being an issue. See here for some tips on use.
Mine is an old version ME Lightline, about 10 years old now. My wife's a more recent Lightline Plus (about the same as the current Lightline). I'd be happy with the current one, or a similar from Rab, PHD etc.
Yes, they really are much warmer than synthetics, and pack down smaller and more easily and weigh less. If you're not planning on standing around in the rain they really do cut the most mustard IME.
For use in tents, bothies and (now) snowholes, I'd go for down over synthetic any day - as Peter says, much warmer, also softer, snugglier and more comforting. I think people can get a bit too worried about the durability of down and its use in the UK climate. A touch of damp on the shell of a decent down jacket isn't going to harm it.
Depending on the bothy, i usually bring my black velvet smoking jacket with paisley pattern silk lining. I'll bring a matching silk cravat if it's a really nice bothy.
If it's a run of the mill bothy, then a down jacket to suit the expected temperatures.
I wouldn't really carry any sort of insulating top specifically for use in a bothy -- just make do with what I had for static periods on the hills. That might be a PHD Ultra vest, Patagonia Micropuff vest, Rab Generator jacket, Montane down jacket, or several others, depending on conditions.
I don't usually carry spare trousers or base layers either for shortish trips.
A few scarps of firelighter can be very useful tho -- especially in the areas where there are big lumps of the Caledonian forest to burn.
The last time I was in a bothy (Shielin of Mark) I wore my old GoLite Coal insulated jacket. As I was sewing a ripped seam in the crotch of my trousers for part of the evening - and thus not wearing them - this may have looked slightly eccentric, particularly since my shoes were wet so I had on my pair of sleeping socks and stuck both feet in a carrier bag to keep them clean...
It's very much about the warmth, very little about style
I tend to get cold in a bothy and use a down jacket (ME Gasherbrum), longjohns and fibrepile socks, which as they don't have a sole, allow socks to dry better than conventional hut slippers - and can be worn in the bag. I place my feet on a sitmat - and put boots back on if I move around the bothy. I have also started using Haglofs Barrier Pants if really cold, which now go in my day pack for emergencies, with the duvet. They have a synthetic insulation and a pertex-like outer, with full length zips.
The Haglofs pants were great earlier this week, when we set off late in the day over a Munro, intending to snowhole high on its other side. The afternoon was too warm for longjohns, but when we arrived at the snowhole site at dusk, I was able to pull these on quickly over my Cascadas, overtrousers over these and away with the digging. I was very snug, and appreciated the warmth provided as my knees don't appreciate the cold...
A the moment for a bit of hillside insulation I always carry my Torres gillet, and that's great on top of a micro-fleece, or on top of my waterproof. However, I've been thinking about something seriously warm in either jacket or smock form. Its main use would be to overlayer on the hillside if I get seriously held up, or, more likely, to only appear at the end of the day in a bothy / tent.
Because of the duel use I've mostly been looking at synthetic insulation, but obviously alot of people really rate down, particularly up-to-date jackets with good water resistant shells. Any advice people?
Obviously smoking jacket and slippers are a must Mike.
Jon, I definately agree that its about warmth not style. That's not to say that if I walked into the Shielin to be greeted by you with no trousers on, I wouldn't be a little worried!
I've used down for decades and have had no problems. My duvet always comes with me on a winter mountain trip - great for emergencies. Many now have a waterproof outer fabric (as has mine), although the seams are not sealed. But it does prevent the jacket getting wet. You are most unlikely to be wearing it in the rain anyway - and if it's really cold, dampness won't affect it very much. Against these tiny concerns, it'll last for yonks. My first Annapurna was bought in 1973 - for £21 (I was very young!) is still usable, and was only succeded by the Gasherbrum 2 - 3 years ago. But I look after my down gear well. Down is so much lighter than synthetic, and so much more compact. This means you'll take it with you, for which you may well be very grateful, or someone else in trouble might be. We had an incident on Snowdon last winter - the casualty was wrapped in his and our duvets before being choppered off. We got a bit cold but he was OK.
FWIW, my coldest nights in a bothy were at Faindouran about 4 years ago. We were able to watch the ice crystals progressing/forming across the inside of our Platypus's - you could actually see the line of ice moving. Boots went under heads as pillows at night to stop them freezing. Culra last week at minus 15 was nothing like as cold!
Depending on the bothy, i usually bring my black velvet smoking jacket with paisley pattern silk lining. I'll bring a matching silk cravat if it's a really nice bothy.
If it's a run of the mill bothy, then a down jacket to suit the expected temperatures.
I was up at Culra and had the stove all set up, my dehydrated treat was almost ready. There was a group of guys staying, and I left the stove and headed indoors, saying "I most go and get dressed for dinner. One must maintain standards!". The looks I got! I honestly think that they thought I was going to come out with a suit and dickie-bow!
Where I come from 'dressing for dinner' is usually heinz ketchup!
Is there no-one who will suggest a synthetic alternative to down for seriously warm bothy evenings? Paramo, montane, snugpack etc? Any ideas?
Or is down the answer?
p.s.
I had a cold night last year, Warnscale Head bothy in the lakes. Down to -15C. Seriously cold, difficult to sleep whenever the fire died down... great fun indeed. I drank alot of tea.
Depends how warm you want to be, and how much you want to carry and how big is your sack! Down is most certainly the answer for me - I've never, ever regretted carrying a down jacket. Perhaps wait for the end of winter sales, or take a peek at the PHD sale now?
Thinking about it, some people like the Snugpak Sleeka - worth a look if you really don't want down?
I've been camping and staying in bothies in the Highlands every day for the last five weeks, and my 15 year old ME down jacket seems to have coped well enough...
I've been camping and staying in bothies in the Highlands every day for the last five weeks, and my 15 year old ME down jacket seems to have coped well enough.
Is there no-one who will suggest a synthetic alternative to down for seriously warm bothy evenings? Paramo, montane, snugpack etc? Any ideas?
if there was a synthetic that did the same job then nobody would still use down: it's inconvenient to source, awkward to manufacture with, expensive and in the field requires more care than most other things. Despite all that, down is still popular because if you want low bulk, low weight warmth then...
Or is down the answer?
..the answer is indeed "down".
For bothy use, compelling reasons to go synthetic are you're allergic to down or a vegan or can't afford a downie.
You wouldn't want to use it for overlayering in pouring rain, obviously, but if you're stuck on the hill then put it under your waterproof, or get into a bothy/survival bag and it'll keep you warm. A down jacket/bag does lose all insulation when it's wet, but that's for values of "wet" equating to "completely soaked through". That takes a long time and a lot of water. It seems to be a common fear amongst those who've not used it that if a drop of water gets past the shell the whole thing immediately becomes useless, but that's really not the case at all. If it was that problematical, again the case that nobody would use it.
Synthetics make a great deal of sense in a lot of places, but if you want to be warm in a very cold place for a good while then down still does it best. Of course we all want something that's the best in every conceivable situation, but we're in this world and Dreamland is over there >>>>>>
This February I have mostly (well, always) been wearing a Buffalo Mountain Shirt and Rab VR keks in the day (very impressed with the latter). I continued wearing them if I spent the night in the tent, to dry them (and as sleeping gear). If in a bothy I'd swap to Icebreaker thermals, the down jacket, and a pair of Ron Hills.
The one camped by the Loch looks like the spot we took from the sea kayak a couple of years ago. Only it was rather warmer then, but not in a Good Way as emerging from the tent meant getting eaten...
with envy....
