Time to go wrote (see)
On a side issue with poles, which way up when using as a tent pole? Handle down or up?
personally I use handle up and handle down at the same time
Always one awkward bugger isn't there. Thanks Moley. Is that some kind of quantum pole you're using? Appears in two states at the same time!
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"Pacer poles appear to need to be gripped by the handles to be carried " they don't. they sit in the natural curve of your fingers. lift arm up and the pole swings forward. just like a walking stick (with or without bonus sword) the difference between pacers and straight poles come down to leverage - or at least i think so. sit in a chair with arms. lever yourself out of the chair a la straight pole mode i.e. hands half clenched, thumb pointing up and push off from the bottom of your hand. now lever yourself out of the chair as you would normally i.e. hands on the arms of the chair palms down fingers round the arm. now lever yourself up. this is a pacer handle. whatever you find easier is for you. i find a pacer pole more comfortable for say a 45degree lean as your weight is in a straight line from shoulder to ground via your palm whereas with a straight pole the weight is via the wrist angle and the side of your hand. the plastic washing liquid bulb thingys are good for putting over sharp bits when using a pole for things other than annoying others. hepls to stop the point sinking into the ground in a hex 3. i don't have a problem with the pacer handles as i carry a carbon top section from an alpkit pole to use.
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oooh! pics appeared at the top. oops!
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Someone's been copying the pacer pole marketing blurb fromt he website methinks. I recognise the armchair bit from their website.
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 Time to go wrote (see)
On a side issue with poles, which way up when using as a tent pole? Handle down or up?
personally I use handle up and handle down at the same time
Always one awkward bugger isn't there. Thanks Moley. Is that some kind of quantum pole you're using? Appears in two states at the same time!
Actually TTD Mole was, as usual, being entirely accurate and helpful. Two poles joined with points in the middle.
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| Edited: 22/03/10 13:31 |
.JPG) TTG - Shroedinger's Pole? - 2 poles - I have a Hex. Benco n Parky Pacers - I can see they would work well, I had a look at their website,and despite their claims of difference in use, the diagrams appear to show the poles positioned/used exactly as I use my Lekis (apart from the steep descent - which looks less useful to me!). It's the grip which puts me off -I'm over analytical re. hand arm ergonomics due to my work, and having used gripped tools regularly for my working life and am sensitive to the need for constantly gripping something - however lightly. It actually put me off using poles at all for a few years -until I realised that using the straps correctly means I rarely need to grip them. I'd like to borrow some Pacers for a proper trial one day. I have handled them before for a quick minute test , and the grip made me shudder
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Works for single pole hexes but not for two pole A-frames or tarp set-ups. I really don't want to carry 4 poles. For me its the beginning of backpacking time so I'm going to finally get the chance to try out some new wildcamping techniques so my poles are going to get a bit of use after last year's waste of space. I'm gonna leave tent poles behind for the first time and even going to get out more in a tarp. So any thread about poles grabs my attention right now. Best time of the year right now or rather next weekend onwards (weather permitting, I'm a nearly fair weather wildcamper I'm afraid. ).
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ttg. i think pacer stole the blurb from om. it certainly wasn't on their site when i bought mine. mole. pacers are used slightly differently. their site explains it very well. the difference i suppose is taht the weight of pole is in your fingers. then again the weight of the pole has to go soemwhere with a straight pole too. i remember gripping the handle to do this - well just enough grip to stop them falling out of my hand. edit: ttg you said you lean forward a lot with a heavy load onto the poles. do you use the hipbelt? since i've used the tghing i don't need to bend forward much at all these days.
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| Edited: 22/03/10 13:48 |
Parky -with Pacers where on the hand does the body weight transfer to the pole? It would appear to be mostly the fleshy base of the thumb near the wrist? - nearer to the outer part of the hand than with a 'strapped' pole? most of the time with me when the pole is in the air moving forward again, the main weight of the pole goes on the back of my hand - via the strap - the fingers just do a little 'steering' now and then.
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with the pacers your fingers still tend to just steer except the weight of the pole is in them. the weight transfer i sthrough the fleshy part of the palm under the thumb. if you hold something with your fingers around it with thumb uppermost (broom handle?) you'll get an idea of what it's like. it's a perfectly natural grip. hold on. put a brrom handle acrioss a gap. let you hand hang naturally at your side. just put your hand, in the same natural position, around the broom handle and lean on it. that's more or less it. not much between the two types for ascents but they really score on descents. for me anyway.
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| Edited: 22/03/10 14:05 |
will try them out some time if- I can borrow some.... Maybe aan OM meet...
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 sit in a chair with arms. lever yourself out of the chair a la straight pole mode i.e. hands half clenched, thumb pointing up and push off from the bottom of your hand. now lever yourself out of the chair as you would normally i.e. hands on the arms of the chair palms down fingers round the arm. now lever yourself up. this is a pacer handle. This is where you make a big difference by using the strap rather than the grip as the primary thing to push off. You can push down on the strap of a standard pole, just as you do on the arm of a chair. with the pacers your fingers still tend to just steer And it's the same using straps rather than grips on a "normal" pole. Having tried Pacers briefly in a shop I can see why people like them. I think you'd get straight up to speed without needing to work on technique. But if you have the technique anyway you've much less to gain, so I didn't feel any need to drop £75 on something that lets me do what I can do anyway. There are some claims about more power thransfer through a Pacer handle, but I'm very sceptical about that. In nordic skiing serious folk will use a glove-type strap and that's not great for walking as it's a PITA to get in and out which isn't an issue in a ski race, but biathletes often seem to avoid those glove-type straps as they need to get guns sorted several times and don't want unnecessary buggering about with straps. If there was a power advantage as well as not bothering the straps I can't see why biathletes wouldn't be falling over themselves to gain competitive advantage from using that sort of grip, and biathlon is a very serious game in quite a few places. Pete.
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Having tried Pacers briefly.... I can see why people like them. I think you'd get straight up to speed without needing to work on technique. But if you have the technique anyway you've much less to gain, so I didn't feel any need to drop £75 on something that lets me do what I can do anyway. (although I'd like to try some again as I might be missing something) That's pretty much my reaction to them, I mentioned this on another thread a while back (in less politic terms!) so Chris Townsend explained how much 'better' they are. (I still think they appear less versatile due to the degrees of movement limited by the grip)
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(I still think they appear less versatile due to the degrees of movement limited by the grip) In practice I think you'll just get used to whatever you have. Hands are pretty flexible things and they'll find a way to get what needs doing done. Which is precisely my argument for not needing anything fancy, of course, and why I'm more interested in the locking mech and overall quality of construction than the grip. Pete.
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I've used a single pole since they first came out in the UK - 30 years ago I think. My first was a Leki with a wooden handle and a leather strap and since then I've had Leki, Brasher and Black Diamond ones. I've had a Leki pole snap and another bend, and have been frequently irritated by poles telescoping at inconvenient moments. My current favourites are Black Diamond alpine shock ones with flicklock clips. They have an oval profile for added strength and are just about perfect - they cope well with snow and when used for general walking. The shock absorbence isn't quite as good as Leki's but certainly better than none at all.
I've always used just one, usually wanting a hand free for map, camera, binos or dog lead or whatever, but as Black Diamond poles are sold in pairs I've occasionally used two. This requires a different technique and while it's useful on snow I still think it's a bit of a 'poser' thing.
It will be interesting to see how Leki's new cliplock poles turn out. I believe they're not shock absorbing, however,
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 I still think it's a bit of a 'poser' thing. Don't really see that at all, to my mind using a pair of poles makes one look a bit of a twonk really, if they didn't do a good job as a pair I wouldn't bother with them.
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 I have a pair of carbon Pacers on long-term 'loan' from a friend. Since 'borrowing' (well, tbh, pole-napping) them, I haven't gone back to my standard design poles despite using the straps 'correctly'. I just prefer the way they work, but it is horses for courses and it's a personal preference. I wouldn't have forked out £100 or so for a pair of them when I did get hold of a pair. Now I would!
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They do say using two poles helps protect your knees, but I've been doing serious hill-walking for over 50 years without using two, and no problems so far. Maybe I'm just lucky!
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 Well I've never been accused of being a poser! (not on the hill anyway. I started using poles more regularly to keep me walking after a knee injury. I always use two or none, one just seems off balance to me. I use the normal BD trail with shock absorbtion, the BD version seems about right for me, the leki version is too much and noisy. I use the straps to take most of the weight and hold the poles very lightly in my hands, sometimes very low, similar to nordic skiing so that the pole tip hits near my heel. I also find that even if I don't put any weight on them they help to 'spot' me coming off the hill, that might be down to the amount of skiing I have done in the past. Steve D
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I still think it's a bit of a 'poser' thing. Don't really see that at all, to my mind using a pair of poles makes one look a bit of a twonk really, if they didn't do a good job as a pair I wouldn't bother with them.
yeah I resisted for years cos I thought they looked daft - I've been publicly mocked by kids and by builders in villages when backpacking through
as for one pole only? well as a 'walking stick' and stabiliser, but I have 2 legs and 2 arms...... nowadays, to me 1 pole looks odd - as does not using the straps - that's rather like watching someone not using the gears on their bicycle efficiently
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