 thanks Benco
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 Yer welcome.
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Martin Carpenter wrote: "Yes a good idea not to forget the long, long history of useful use of single poles/sticks".
Spot on, Martin. Our ancestors lived much closer to nature than we will ever do, and most of them relied solely on their feet to get them from A to B. Yet you never see images, or read descriptions of any of them using two poles, do you? The thought of pilgrims, pedlars, friars and other itinerants using a pole in each hand is simply laughable. The only image I can think which might apply is the Long Man of Wilmington who seems to have a long pole in each hand, but I'm sure they were for ritual (as per the dancing men with two spears on the Sutton Hoo helmet) or for measurement. Even early ski-ers only used one pole!
I suggest the two pole idea is simply a scam by gear manufacturers; create a market then supply it. As mentioned above, the latest twist of the scam is to make poles you can't change from hand to hand. If you are lame or injured, two poles may well help. Otherwise, if you really need two poles to walk you need to see a doctor, or maybe take up something else like cycling.
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.JPG) Martin Carpenter wrote: "Yes a good idea not to forget the long, long history of useful use of single poles/sticks". Spot on, Martin. Our ancestors lived much closer to nature than we will ever do, and most of them relied solely on their feet to get them from A to B. Yet you never see images, or read descriptions of any of them using two poles, do you? The thought of pilgrims, pedlars, friars and other itinerants using a pole in each hand is simply laughable. The only image I can think which might apply is the Long Man of Wilmington who seems to have a long pole in each hand, but I'm sure they were for ritual (as per the dancing men with two spears on the Sutton Hoo helmet) or for measurement. Even early ski-ers only used one pole!
fair enough I suggest the two pole idea is simply a scam by gear manufacturers; create a market then supply it. As mentioned above, the latest twist of the scam is to make poles you can't change from hand to hand. If you are lame or injured, two poles may well help. Otherwise, if you really need two poles to walk you need to see a doctor, or maybe take up something else like cycling. Total bollox
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One pole works for you. Two for others. None for some. I don't think trotting out historical references means much either. Things change, techniques develop. When I do use poles, which is rarely, I always use two and mainly for steep uphills when carrying backpacking gear. Sorry, but using one would feel completely unbalanced. I push with one arm; what the feck do I do with the other? Have it dangling uselessly at my side?
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| Edited: 23/03/10 17:56 |
Our ancestors lived much closer to nature than we will ever do, and most of them relied solely on their feet to get them from A to B. Indeed they did, without socks & shoes as well and yet we today do use such artificial aids....maybe you don't eh?
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Even Long John Silver only used one pole - and he only had one leg!
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You don't see any representations of high powered rifles with spotting scopes neither on cave paintings so they are not better than spears are they? Isn't technology wonderfull! We keep trying to move forwards and people still look back to the good old days or even further. Whether or not you believe in two poles being better or pacer pole grips being better is your opinion. However I am sure there will have been research into these things and it is highly likely there is some advantage to using two poles. Why don't we see downhill skiers at the recent winter olympics using one pole like the original skiers? Could that be a case that the ski pole manufacturers have conned them into believing two poles are better than one, whereas they could get the same times and save money with one pole. Walking is different (not competitive and not a performance activity) but there is one advantage even I can see. You have a pole at each side to try to stop a fall on whichever side it should happen. That is just one reason why two poles could be better but personal preference will always overrule any argument for one side or the other. Stick with what you prefer is my advice but looking back as ancient artifacts for an argument against modern technology or thinking is irrelevant hubris.
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Our ancestors lived much closer to nature than we will ever do, and most of them relied solely on their feet to get them from A to B. Indeed they did, without socks & shoes as well and yet we today do use such artificial aids....maybe you don't eh?
Someone told me that they ran with a barefoot runner in their club. Its not unusual you know. I also knew a guy who walked around in bare feet. That was in Leeds. He started doing it one warm spring day and just carried on into all but the coldest of winter conditions. He put shoes on for snow. I tried it once going to the pub round the corner and a little down the road. It wasn't half bad. I would never go out on a night out like that but he did.
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Stick with what you prefer is my advice but looking back as ancient artifacts for an argument against modern technology or thinking is irrelevant hubris.
Stick with what you prefer indeed; just don't accuse others of being naive dipshits if they prefer something else.
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| Edited: 23/03/10 18:10 |
Anyway why use the internet to spread the 'all modern innovations are crap' message, surely carrier pigeons are a better method.
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I'm no Luddite, and yes I do indeed wear shoes and socks. But our ancestors weren't all cave-men - for instance, the Vikings had socks (and woolen tights) and very decent boots. Of course, pilgrims and friars would have worn sandals or gone barefoot.
It occurs to me that the sort of people who use two poles are probably also the sort of people who use GPS (and mobile phones on the hill) so how on earth do they cope with all that? They must wish they had as many arms as the Goddess Kali!
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 twist locking needs adjusting during the day as the poles expand. it seems that carbon a prey to this too but seemingly when it gets colder rather than warmer - must be to do with the nylon thingy that locks.
i adjust my poles during the day. just as i adjust my laces during the day - shame i can't just do them up and leave them. i think it's an important point to understand with metal poles so you don't get them suddenly collapsing. it's also an important point is you use poles to support a shelter so you don't have to adjust them in the middle of the night. are flick lock types affected by the opposite - may slip when cold?
peter. the simple point i'm trying to make is the with a pacer pole the force is in a natural straight line from shoulder to pole tip. it isn't with a straight pole as it goes through the wrist angle. use pole. lean out at 45 degrees onto a pole. means sod all in use unless you have weak(er) wrists or find the pacer more natural to use.
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people who use two poles are those who tend not to fall on their face or arse when going up a very muddy slope. and will have clean hands. don't want to get mud over the gps.
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Xavier. You're a troll. Or simply just an ignorant buffoon. I don't use a GPS. But I can see where they have their uses. I do use a mobile phone however. It beats the hell out of waving desperately and blowing a whistle. Oooo, hang on. Whistles. Maybe a little too advanced.
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I use two poles if I use them at all and only for a particular outdoors activity namely backpacking with a lightish load (about 8-13kg). I also own a GPS but I tend to use maps more often. The gps is only used if I am trying to exactly fix my location for example trying to find a particular point on the map (say a feature or something similar). It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with that and it doesn't make me a particular sort unless by that you mean someone who uses the most appropriate or efficient tool for the job. I wonder how you manage to read a map, use a compass, pull up your socks, tue your shoes and walk the hills? Perhaps you don't do it all at once. Hmmm! Perhaps if I am looking at the GPS or map I have the poles stuck in the ground or dangling by their straps. I'm not being funny Xavier but I suggest we should agree to disagree here. I doubt you would be pursuaded by anyone to use two poles for walking. Me? I prefer to use them sparingly when for me it makes sense such as backpacking where I am carrying a load greater than normal, when a fall in the middle of the trip could mean an injured man having to find his way off the hill with said pack. Two poles for me when multi-day backpacking is more about insurance than anything. It gives me a little bit more confidence and stability. Plus they hold my tarp and tent up so I guess two makes sense for me. One more thing do Leki still do a try before you buy thing at selected retailers? a few years after I took the plunge and got mine they did that. Perhaps if they still do such a trial period it could be interesting for someone like Xavier who is not convinced to try them out, perhaps someone who knows the good technique could demonstrate. Afterall with pretty much everything there is a good and a bad way to use them. Plus we learn through experience. I'm not saying Xavier would be convinced but I do think he might start to see when they could be of some use.
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 Actually one long pole works quite nicely on steep up/down hill bits - you can plant it quite a way ahead of you in either direction and use it for balance/to haul yourself up by. Amusingly that probably works rather better on a wooden pole where you can slide your grip position up and down it to adjust its length. None of this fancy folding stuff or adjustment needed (A problem when it comes to transporting it to the walk/hit a scramble of course!) A single, short, fixed length pole probably wouldn't be as much use for this. Two perhaps although you'd have to use them fairly differently. I certainly slide my grip position on my wooden sticks up and down quite a lot. Silly to claim either approach simply better of course. Just different. I wouldn't be at all surprised if two shortish poles were notably better for power tranmission on semi flat bits.
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I've created a monster. 
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It occurs to me that the sort of people who use two poles are probably also the sort of people who use GPS (and mobile phones on the hill) I usually use a compass, what was good enough for Columbus is good enough for me. 
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Oh get you. Mr Technology 
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| Edited: 23/03/10 18:50 |
