 What about flying fish,do they fly or glide? surely they float though?
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 Concurve? . I must leave the water of life alone when I'm on here. Don't worry, Mal, I think concurve is a lovely word  How does all this techno-stuff about wings help me to perfect my paper aeroplane design?
Yes, "concurve" is good, but not as good as the word he invented last night to describe Wayfarer Bacon and Baked Beans - "flato-genic".
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 "Concurve" is actually a trademark name for Gore running gear. I have a Concurve waterproof jacket. Subconsciously, I must have been harking back to the days when I could run more than ten feet. 
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| Edited: 24/07/08 10:39 |
 I thought Concurve was invented by Peter Snow to describe the graph of politicians' honesty ratings 
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 Coming up your way for an MRI this afternoon, Mal!! I spoke to Peter Snow on the phone once when his Battlefield Britain programme was in pre-production. He's as manic on the phone as he is on tv!!
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 Name dropper! lol!
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I should think so too, Kate. If you have to name drop on this forum - and I was saying this only last week to Janet Street Porter - at least drop names of outdoorsy types!
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 I spoke to Peter Snow on the phone once when his Battlefield Britain programme was in pre-production. He's as manic on the phone as he is on tv!!
But how tall did he sound on the phone? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Four of the sexiest words in physics are: weight, lift, drag and thrust NASAAerodynamicsI understand HOW it works but not WHY, that's why I'm not a physicist
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How'd the MRI go Kate? Nothing too drastic amiss I hope.
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MRI went fine thanks, Mal, very straightforward. Just the knees - they did one a few weeks ago then realised that the consultant wanted both knees scanned and they'd only made an appointment for one knee  . Peter Snow did indeed sound tall on the phone, NPC, at least 6" high!
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| Edited: 24/07/08 23:25 |
 When an aircraft flys inverted the aerofoil IS having the opposite effect and creating lower pressure on the top of the wing, thus attempting to make the aircraft go down. The pilot has to compensate with the controls to nulify this effect.
Tony, you're just bloxing there, unless you can explain how the pilot "compensates with the controls".
I don't have to, Mal did a splendid job!
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that was pants parky.
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When an aircraft flys inverted the aerofoil IS having the opposite effect and creating lower pressure on the top of the wing, thus attempting to make the aircraft go down. The pilot has to compensate with the controls to nulify this effect.
Tony, you're just bloxing there, unless you can explain how the pilot "compensates with the controls".
I don't have to, Mal did a splendid job!
I wasn't going to say this 'cos Mal is such a sensitive bloke and takes these thing seriously, but I thought his answer, and therefore your endorsement of it, was utter blox. I think the true answer lies in positioning the aircraft so as to alter the wings' angle of attack until the inverted wing counteracts gravity again. I suspect that trying Mal's approach of using flaps would be disasterous in a high speed jet, taking too long to happen then resulting in the flaps being ripped off. Where's John Burley when you need him. Come on John, lets have some science to tell us which lot of amateur guesses are correct.
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| Edited: 25/07/08 21:43 |
All I can tell you for certain is that of those helicopters that can fly inverted (not all can and those that do tend to be of the "rigid rotor" design like the lynx) the pilot has to apply "reverse" collective pitch, which means the collective lever is used in reverse to "normal" flight. I am not certain the effects of this in fixed wing, but I would imagine that a similar principle would apply in fixed wing, that is the "stick" would work in reverse when flying inverted and trimming of the controls would have to be sightly forward of true to counteract the natural tendency for the nose to head downwards. All pure supposition on my part of course!
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I didn't even know that helicopters could fly upside down, but what you say seems to confrm my theory since, as far as I know, helicopters don't have flaps.
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This might be relating to model RC helicopters, but the principles are the same, so have a read of it. Airfoil explained It does admit that angle of attack does assist with lift, but it does a nice simple explanation that the primary lift force is lowered pressure on the upper surface of an aerofoil!
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Copied from your reference (above): "Having an air foil shape on both the top and bottom of a wing now means airplanes and helicopters can fly upside down. By changing the angle of attack or pitch to negative when upside down, the rotor now produces lift in the opposite direction – pretty neat."
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I was going to add that in a fixed wing you change the aerofoil shape and thus the differing speed of airflow over upper and lower surfaces of the aerofoil with the flaps, and it only needs s,all adjustments to do that. In a helicopter, you change the airflow over uper and lower aerofoil surfaces by using the collective pitch lever, which tilts the blades on their own axis, thus having the same effect.
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