Hi

Is Paramo gear still to be recommended?

I was thinking of buying some Paramo gear but I notice

a) Not a single stockist in London (WHY?)

b) I went to four mountaineering shops in High Street Ken and no one had even HEARD of Paramo!!

c) I notice the range hasnt expanded much in the last couple of years...
e.g. The only colour of trousers you can get seems to be blue!!

d) And the most recent review on this site (www.outdoorsmagic.com) was 2003 (as far as I can see...)

e) Their own website (www.paramo.co.uk) seems to be impossible to buy from - or is it just me?!!

Are they in financial trouble or something.

If so this is a terrible shame. I like the fact that I can walk into a gorse bush an not utterly ruin my jacket (as happens with any gortex-type shell) and I like the fact that it does wear out and that it doesnt russle. (I use it for birding & fairly extreme hill walking in the W Highlands of Scotland)

I have an old plane green Paramo jacket which I rather like. [Not sure if it is an Alta or a Cascada, but it has a hood and an internal breast map pocket...] I've had it for about 3 years and it works well. I use it for cycling and was thinking about getting something much brighter (and lighter!)

And or maybe just a lighter one...?

I also need a pair of waterproof trousers for hillwalking.

I find that the water doesn bead off like it used to even though I wash it in all both the recommended Nikwax things. I also tumbledried it as hot as I dared - it even began to shrivel at one point...!

In desperation I actually tried some grangers equivalent to NikWax's TX Direct & Tech Wash and that seemed to work slightly better - though of course it too stops beading after a while... but it seemed to bead the water better for longer and it doesnt smell so horrible when you put it in the tumbledrier!

I find it strange that Paramo seems so good to me and yet it hasnt really taken off (not in London anyhow, it hasnt!!)

-Or is there something else similar on the market that is cheaper and/or better?!

Can anyone help?


Ship
Shiperton Henethe

paramo recomendation - top gear. in my opinion.

this year saw new trousers - the zip off leg ones, and the snazzy jacket, both about a third lighter than before.

reason for trousers being blue is the manufacturing village (in bogotoa i think)could only do different colour OR different length - not both. so length won. for some reason it wasn't possible for both.

the same beading thing happened to my jacket. it was re-treated at their premises. works like new now.if you contact paramo i think they would be very helpful.

apparently if you use a domestic washing machine for re-treating it must free from all traces of washing powder, that might explain the reduction in beading over time.

there is other stuff the same as paramo, made in scotland somewhere (or an island off), i think it is even heavier, bright are the colours - like very bright, and more expensive. but they will make the garment pretty well how you want it.

you may have started something by suggesting paramo might not be financially secure.


call the paramo police! dee-door dee-door

Yes its still to be recommended.

I don't hink I've ever seen a stockist in London.

The nearist one that I know is up the A41 at Bourne End just past Hemel Hempstead and they are a fairly big stockist although even they have cut back a bit in recent years. There's another place in St. Albans that can order stuff on your behalf, but being a very small shop doesn't stock much of the gear on site.

Otherwise we rely on visits to Derbyshire and the Lake District to replace our Paramo gear. (We being myself and two friends.)

They have been bringing out new stuff and new designs, but sales do seem to be declining. This is possibly due to the gear lasting ages.

Either that or, IMO, being far too pricey for what it is. A good example is the zip-off trousers. £140 each, someone is having a giraffe. I'd rather pay £45 and buy 3 pairs of other makes.

If you're in London, give Paramo a call and hop on a train down to the factory shop in Wadhurst, East Sussex. Paramo don't do online retail for a number of reasons - 1) so as not to piss off independent retailers, 2) the fact that Paramo believe in person-to-person retail - it's easier to explain how it works that way.

If your jacket isn't beading anymore you have two options - send it to Paramo (or Nikwax) and tell them, or get it dry cleaned to get rid of all the layers of old proofing, wash it with Tech Wash and reproof with TX.Direct. Paramo jackets are perfectly safe to dry clean.

If you've got any other questions about Paramo or Nikwax let me know (I'm a product development chemmist for Nikwax, and I work with Paramo on their proofing and fabrics).

Cheers
Jane

Paramo is the bees knees!

If your jacket is not on top form after treatment then check and redo. Or, as has been said return to Paramo and they will sort it.

Rememeber Paramo comes with a lifetime gaurantee and they mean it. I recently returned a pair of trousers that were bought in 1993 with a zip problem. They came back after being sorted and reproofed patched but as good as ever.

As for expense you can always buy several pairs of something else that will not breath as well or be as well designed.

Also with so many mountain rescue groups using them I do not think they are about to go bust!

Here Here, I'm one who are very much in the paramo camp, i'm very much impressed by there products and when the time comes, i will be replacing my waterproof shell jacket with a paramo 1 as i've been shown how every time it'll outperform the membranes (Isotex, Sympatex, Gore-tex, Aquafoil and triple point.)
Paramo have the Parameta fabrics, which compared to the likes of the wicking tops that use coolmax or dryflo/ lite, Are a lot better. On the hill, or the high street i've met a lot of people who will sing paramo's praise's and in my experiance of there tops me to!

I would recommend Paramo for standing about in, looking slightly suspicious, in a velvety kind of way. Also good if you need to build up a dense layer of sweat.

As you're all converts (Darren excepted), I'll just rustle off somewhere else...

Have a look at Cioch's web site. They use Paramo material but will make to order and in any colour in, i.e. Green if it's available at the moment.
I have some Paramo and some Cioch gear and much prefer the Cioch.

I have yet to find anything to surpass Paramo im a recent convert and love the stuff. I have a red jacket which i find is bright enough. The best bit about the blue trousers is that they dont show up too much muck.

I have used other fabrics includung Goretex Goretex XCR Lowe Alpine Triple Point and Triple Point Ceramic and have trialled an eVENT Jacket all of which i think do not perform as well as Paramo.

I have used Paramo in the Alps Lakes and Scotland and in my local area (Dark Peak) I have used it Summer and Winter and find it is the best fabric i have ever used but what the hell its only my opinion each to thier own and all that.

But many opinions carry great weight. But it's like marmite you love or hate it! But the user of two paramo explorer pull-ons instead of the usal wicking 'T' shirts, i have found the paramo does seem to outperform anything else!

e.g. the trousers are expensive but.....you only need one pair i.e. you won't need "normal" trousers and waterproofs. no wet knees due to condensation. lots of ventilation via the full length side zips. extremely comfortable. no loud rustling noises. and like all their gear, easy to care for and easily repairable without compromising its effectiveness.

it is strange that there are no london stockists - can paramo explain that?

imho there isn't anything better for comfort and breathability - paclite and event just don't come anywhere near it. the performance is fantastic and some of the underwear stuff e.g. the pull-ons with a base t shirt is just awesome with the outside of the fabric being wet/damp and the inside dry - quite remarkable.

Well if their products are *so* great, (as I think they probably are - even though my old one is rather heavy) ...then how come they dont seem to be more commercially successful?!! They're not THAT expensive - particularly if they last as long as they are supposed to!

I shall try dry cleaning mine seeing if that helps. More later.

Cioch vs Paramo
I'd be interested to hear any more views on Cioch, how appear to make clothing using the same fabrics as Paramo...
http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk

Personally I almost dont care about how much a jacket costs - far more important is how it performs. (i.e. Breathability, severe weather waterproofness, weight, russle-factor, colours, ease of maintenance etc)

Regarding trousers, I did quite like my ("Cascada"??) trousers with the unzippable sides for ventilation. Unfortunately I lost them though. My only real complaint was that after being slightly cooked in my tumble drier they *looked* a real mess! (Plus I want something more camouflagued for birding and a mid green would be *MUCH* better than a dark blue!)
I am now rather tempted to go for "Viento Zip-off" - but how well do they work as short? e.g. Do the zips chaff at all on a long walk?



Ship
Shiperton Henethe

ship
there is no issue with zips chaffing. i was very happy with the fit, they are cut different to the old heavy trousers (casscada). if the weather is 'intermitant' i.e. slashing one minute and blazeing the next (as is often the case on the thames and medway marshes) the legs can be zipped off or on in a couple of seconds. no muddy patches all over your weatherproofs.

the problem is that the majority of people buying this kind of kit simply wander into the shop saying "I want a berhaus goretex jacket" they dont know what goretex is, only that they want it. If they told something that lets a bit of water in but but removes it for some weird technical reason, they believe they are being fobbed off with an inferior product.

>>>>>>
the problem is that the majority of people buying this kind of kit simply wander into the shop saying "I want a berhaus goretex jacket" they dont know what goretex is, only that they want it. If they told something that lets a bit of water in but but removes it for some weird technical reason, they believe they are being fobbed off with an inferior product.
>>>>>>

Interesting... I was under the impression that even under heavy rain the Paramo jackets dont let in ANY water! Just so long as the hydrophobic/beading is maintained...

I never had a chance to properly test the trousers mind you, before I lost(/someone nicked) them.


Ship

I'd rather smear myself with marmite than wear paramo!


I just run too flipping hot to wear it.

Of course, Gore has spend gazillions of dollars on ensuring Gore-Tex is a very widely recognized brand name, so your average (moderately aware) punter goes into the outdoor shop and asks for a brand they know. That's the whole point of advertising; getting your name recognized.

Having gone for Gore-Tex, the buyer finds that there is a whole range of manufacturers and garments to choose from, with different styles, colours, etc. which are equally as important as function.

So, Paramo, with a much smaller advertising budget, and a single range of garments, will be much less popular to the mass market.

And, it has to be said, I find their choice of colours, and the cut of their garments not to my taste.

Then there's the running hot thing. I do run hot, and rest cold, so I want to be able to pare down to the bare minimum of layers, and in rain, that means waterproof and base layer. Now, assuming I don't strip off the base layer and wear the Paramo next to the skin (which I suppose is possible), I'm going to be too hot.

At least that's the thinking behind my never having bought a Paramo garment.

Now, if that nice man Nick Brown (and my limited interaction with him in the days of MtnUK suggests he is a nice man) wants to lend me a jacket to review, I might just become another Paramo evangelist...

Paramo isn't stocked anywhere in Glasgow either. It's good gear though, worth the extra expense.

Anyone else wanna comment on this "running hot" issue?

I do a lot of hillwalking (hot) and intermittent wildlife watching (cold!)

Obviously a jacket can but in buttoned, at the front (as can the trousers with their massive ventilation & side zips etc.) But I would certainly agree from my limited experience that when I'm cycling with my Paramo on, that in summer it's still way too hot (and opening it up then creates flap and drag!)

- So what do you Paramo /Cioch fans like to wear underneath your jackets? Just a thin T-shirt? And what happens when you stop and then start to get cold... do you take the jacket off completely and then put a fleece on underneath? And then if still raining have to take both off when you get going again!? (This is a a real bore if one is stopping & starting repeatedly...)

I run quite hot but then very cold when I stop (generally to watch some birdlife!)
I was thinking of buying a Paramo Taiga Fleece for warmth. But it's quite heavy at 892g... so just how shower/waterproof is it... and how useful is that aspect in practice...?!

Can you wear the fleece next to the skin?

Do you wear *just* a thin (polyester/non-cotton) t-shirt under a jacket?

Paramo seem to be recommending wearing a wind-proof light-weight ("Fuera") jacket in combination with the ("Taiga") fleece. Is this recommended in the wet?!

Or would I be better getting a heavier more genuinely waterproof jacket, and then some thin light fleece to go under it?


Regarding *trousers*, I gather in summer at least, you just wear them next to the skin. The unzippable legs on the ("Viento") trousers that turn in to shorts sound highly appealing so long as they are easy to take on and off. Ah except that they only come in Blue (i.e. not birdwatcher's green). Drat... maybe go for the
:-[


All highly confusing!

Materials:
Also, I notice the Cioch jackets are made with either "Beachcombe Microfibre" (e.g. on the Sligachan) or with the less soft "Renaissance and High-Tech Micro microfibres" (e.g. on the Lota). And I wondered how well both of these keep the water out. Both come with the 'Parameta' directional pump liner, apparently...
Oh and is the 'Parameta' lining the same thing as 'Nikwax Analogy Pump Liner'??
And what the heck is "Analogy"? I have to say Paramo's jargon seems highly confused/confusing!



Ship