Choice in the Outdoor Business?

Interesting question. The Outdoor business is hugely dominated by Gore at the manufacturing level. In turn, throughout the world larger and larger retailers are carving out a bigger and bigger proportion of the business.

And most of it is made in China these days, with different brands using the same factories.

I have to express my admiration in the States and Canada for the co-ops. REI and MEC belong to their members, and yet they dominate the North American specialist market with huge stores and huge turn-over.

The people that work there are genuinely concerned about performance,and both co-ops contribute to environmental schemes, which I think is great. We need something like that in Europe and I would be delighted if they were to expand their brands over here to compete with our big retailers, and drive through greater choice.

I've bought gear in the past from MEC. Its quite a different experience to shopping in a big chain in the UK.

I think I even joined the co-op in order to buy goods. Not sure as it was a long time ago.

I am sure that I came across a co-operative outlet for gear in the UK, maybe only trading online? I think it was based near Bolton or Manchester. Has anyone come across their site?

There is a co-operative here - Stoke on Trent ring something of a bell. Their prices are pretty competitive.

Incidentally, Nick, what about Paramo gloves? And what would boots lined in Analogy material be like?

Here's a co-op:

http://www.outdoorco-op.co.uk/Frame_Home.html

Great idea. Not used them, but often looked.

I would like to tell people who don't have a Paramo retailer locally that in the 21st century we buy things via the internet, but I have to tell Nick Brown that because in my experience Paramo sizing isn't consistent, this 21st C shopping doesn't always work out as planned. Shame, as there are some bargains out there in Cybershop.

John

I think thats the co-op I was thinking about thanks for the address.

How about co-operative retailer otlets being shopping partners of Outdoorsmagic?

Of course the Indpendents are our source of choice here .... but they don't have the buying power of REI and MEC .... or the multiples here ......

I would think gloves would be a good idea.

But a boot would allow water through due to the nature of the anology material. as unlike GT doesn't have the membrane to provide a waterproof barrier.

Boots

I won't go anywhere near Gore Tex lined boots. I prefer a lining that is not completely waterproof. Just wondered if the Paramo technology could work in that regard. Daydreaming really!

" Here's a co-op:

http://www.outdoorco-op.co.uk/Frame_Home.html

Great idea. Not used them, but often looked.

I would like to tell people who don't have a Paramo retailer locally that in the 21st century we buy things via the internet, but I have to tell Nick Brown that because in my experience Paramo sizing isn't consistent, this 21st C shopping doesn't always work out as planned. Shame, as there are some bargains out there in Cybershop.

John"

This store has been around for sometime. I don't know if the guy that originally opened it (as Stone Outdoors?) back in the late 80s/early 90s is still involved but he certainly knew his stuff.

I bought a Paramo coast from there in 1992 or 1993 and it's still going strong.

Of course, I meant to say a Paramo coat! Not coast......

:)

Andy, I too have long thought about Paramo walking boots, now especially as my Goretex lined boots seem to let water in, yet not so easily let it out (I believe there to be a cut in them somewhere, so Nikwax doesn't do much for them). A Paramo material would wick the water away in the drier walking, which I find preferable to constant walking in a puddle as I am now... :)

Daniel,

Glad I'm not the only one who has been thinking along these lines.

I just won't buy Gore Texx lined boots after taking a pair to the Pyrenees. In the heat my feet always ended up looking as if they had been in bath all day!

When I bought my first Paramo jacket in 1995 I wrote to Nick about producing some gloves and had a reply along the lines of, we're working on it but are having problems with water coming through under pressure. That was 10 years ago so I'm guessing it's not possible with their existing technology. Likewise for boots where the pressure would be even higher.

Hi guys, after years of reading about Paramo, I've decided to bite the bullet and give it a go. The way I see it, anything that receives as many enthusiastic endorsements as Paramo can't be all bad! My problem is this - when I get into the hills, I tend to run hot as I move at a fairly quick pace. For example, I was up in the Lakes last week and was pretty comfortable just wearing a long-sleeve LIFA and Ronhills. I only needed a windstopper fleece when I sat down for my sarnies. One the issues that seems to have repeatedly (whether right or wrong) about Paramo, is that it tends to err on the side of being warm. So will it be too hot for me? Or is there a set-up that would suit someone who keeps pretty warm when they walk?

it's too warm for summer and probably parts of spring and autumn too. but it depends on what you usually wear. if you wear a windproof fleece (or fleece/windproof)over a base layer in winter then it won't be because it will replace the fleece.

Cripsy, I think this heat thing over over-played. The latest generation of Paramo jackets (Alta II, etc.) are lighter.

There are not waterproofs, they are winter wear. The best comparison . In terms of heat, compare them to Windstopper.

I use mine in winter, Spring and late autumn - whenever there is a chance of wind of rain. The venting works really well. I'm not a cold running person and I don''t really have too many problems.

Well i'm a warm running person.
Yet when raining in the summer it is cold so the jacket goes on whilst rain and off again when it stops. But the rest of the year if it cold or drizzley or rain on and off the Jkt will stay on all the time. So being an Alta II with the lighter pump liner it must have been running a lot cooler than the previous models which are said to be of winter use only. So andy i'll Ditto the above


Apoligise for the lateness of the reply.

At Páramo, we have tried to cater more for people who 'run hot' - lighter weight pump liner and through-to-skin venting on our traditional garments, plus the introduction of new base layers such as reversible Cambia last year, and new outers such as the Fuera windproof smock this summer - the uptake took us by surprise! Any other ideas we are very happy to listen to. Some hot individuals simply wear the Velez next to skin, to benefit from the excellent breathability in cold & wet weather without overheating.
Gloves & Mitts are another story - as you mention, the Analogy system does have limitations when pressure is involved. We're still working on it, but it is a challenge......!

The new Vasco jacket looks interesting. nice cut and the venting is just where i'd want it to be.?

I have a similar venting system on an Altura cycle jacket and it works a treat.

Paramo?
What's that, then?



<runs>