Hi Nick

Oh okay so bearing in mind I'm 6ft and 12 stone, you're saying that a Parameta A (cool) base layer is fine for hot weather,
and if it rains you can just put on an Paramo Analogy jacket.

But that is going to be very much warmer than just the base layer by itself. Any how going down that route one still would need something with lots of venting...


Fuera Jacket & Taiga Fleece combo

Meanwhile I'm interested in the Fuera Jacket and Taiga Fleece combination. When would one use that?

I mean I quite like the idea of a nice warm(ish) fleece which if it drizzles will keep the rain off, but which if there's heavier rain you could put the Fuera over the top to take the impact out of the rain. The Fuera jacket would also be useful to keep warm in a strong wind even if not raining.

However because the Fuera Jacket doesnt have hydrophobic Parameta lining ("Parameta P"?)lining built in:
a) does this mean that it cant pump as efficiently?
b) is it *completely* waterproof in a downpour?

If either a) or b) are no, then I'm left wondering if the Fuera Jacket's shell is the same outer as used in a Paramo Analogy jacket, and if so is there any way we can buy a hydrophobic Parameta separate. This could then be worn underneath the Fuera jacket, but which could be worn separately to give *intermediate* insultation/water-resistance/windproofing... and thus more flexibility with fewer garments.

Told you I was confused!

But before I leave I still think a user guide for different types of user (wearing different combinations) would be extremely helpful.

Agree that such a guide would be a great idea - a defintive guide to garment combinations -- I did start trying to convert the principles into a computer program so that you could put in your weight, height proposed activity and ambient temperature and come out with an answer -- minimum weight combination of garments or minimum cost combination, for example.


When you start working on it there is a helluva lot of complexity. It is not something, for example, that can be easily sorted graphically in a catalogue.

Fascinating problem but it needs a PHD student to do it not an MD! Don't have one to hand right now - any suggestions? Volunteers?

I'm not really convinced that people are quite as deterministic as that. Whether this is because some people like to feel cool while others like to feel roasting or whether it's more complicated physiologically I don't pretend to know, but I regularly wear less on the hill on cold days than people who are different sizes both ways than me, many of whom tell me I must be freezing!

"Running hot" also coincides with my being unable to wear Paramo Analogy garments (I had one of the first Nevadas and subseqently tried a 3rd Elelment jacket and felt cooked in both, I have tried!) outside of serious cold. But I see plenty of people who regularly walk in a fleece and a shell jacket, and these folk would be very well served with Paramo.

And just for the record, though the waterproofs cook me I'm a big fan of the Paramo reversible shirts. Most versatile general purpose outdoor tops I have.

Pete.

Ship,
Nick can correct me if I'm wrong but the Taiga fleece provides the Parameta lining and the Fuera jacket provides wind protection and absorbs the impact of the rain. What you have in this combination is a seperate shell and a fleece with the pump action liner. In combo they work as well a a Paramo jacket (in theory).

OK. I'm kind of interested in the Velez or the Cuzco but need to try on (as small may not be small enough). Anyone know of any stores stocking a really good range near Oxford/London.

Also, any liklehood of any sales? £140 is quite a bit of money for a student, but I kindof want something that will last and I can wear around town, cycling, hiking, fieldwork and not look like a mountaineer!

My last jacket cost £70, lasted 4 years. But I found it's styling (millions of pockets, annoying hood) annoying. But I find now I cycle everywhere I need a jacket that will withstand even heavier use and with a more active cut.

Even £20 off wouldn't go amiss.

Also, if I was to spend a whole day in constant rain, standing around as well as walking at a moderate pace, will it do the job? I'm not bothered about the physics just want to know it will work in very wet conditions (not just mountains, but wet-I can get cold and wet all year round, and it is miserable).

ship
the fleece is a thin "fleece" shell covering a pump liner (the whole garment being waterproofed). the fuera is a shell. put the two together and you have a "full system" combination.
bear in mind that the two together is hotter than just a jacket as you have an extra layer of material between the liner and the shell.

the fleece is fairly windproof and protects against the rain quite well also. i'm happy to be out in the occasional shower in it. the fleece is too hot for summer.

however, the fuera by itself is great as a "showerproof" shell for summer - in fact it's extremely showerproof (and comes with a full system hood which can also be fitted to the fleece - sneaky eh!)- and of course keeps the wind off.
perhaps an all season solution to your needs.

what you wear underneath, well, only you can decide by experimentation.

kat
it keeps you dry. full stop.

this stuff appears in sales very, very occasionally and ccc outdoors (shopping link up the top on the left) are usually the ones that do big discounts. their usual price is 10% less that the rrp.

it will cost you more to look after because you tend to lavish love and attention on it

<sidles off to fondle fuera>

Hmmmm I'm getting tempted more and more...

I'm meant to be saving at the moment...

Damn!

Am a big fan of CCCoutdoors-there is a big store near my parents house-maybe I'll have to sneak up there for the weekend! They don't appear to have the one I like though :-( And I really need to try things on.

I really should do some work now...

Occasionally Paramo run sales across the country where they sell off end of range and seconds direct to the consumer. These are usually held in some hall or other and you go by invitation only.

Invites are for existing customers and I have been to one sale about 2 years ago now. I'm waiting for another invite!

Actually, anyone have any experience of their sizing-is it 'big' or 'small'?

I find companies have different ideas on what an inch or a cm is!

I really like a couple of the mens/unisex jackets but am concerned they are too big for me-I find that Montane's smallest size is a little bit big (which is very upsetting given Cotswold's amazing sale on half their range...). I am 34" in the chest and under 30" in the waist (women's size 8-10), but tall (5"9). Often find clothing sizes in both mens and women's are rubbish.

Paramo's sizing is a bit hit and miss.

When the Velez and Cuzco jackets came out everyone I met said they had to go up a size to get a good fit.

Kat- Check the Paramo site for the size chart. It's very detailed and useful. They even make stuff in extra small.

Kat

I have a Velez and a cuzco. As for sizings an XL fits me fine and im 6'1" and 14 stone with a 46" chest. My wife has a viento jacket shes a size 14 and a medium fits her well. Incidentally i got my Cuzco for 50 quid off ebay and there is a cuzco for sale on there, buy it now for £99 i think its a medium just check out sporting goods and search for the keyword Paramo.

Its worth spending the extra bit of cash to secure some, its mighty fine clothing.

I was converted last year when i managed to blag some on loan from the man who owns CCC Outdoors nice fella he is, good climber too.

Parky

One problem of Fuera Jacket + Taiga Fleece combination is clearly weight... !

Fuera Jacket 532 g
Taiga Fleece 892 g
----
1424 g

vs

Analogy Jackets:
e.g.

Aspria Jacket 841 g
or
Alta II Jacket 849 g
or
Viento Jacket 800 g


If one used the Taiga *in effect* a hydrophobic Parmeta liner substitute, it seems outrageously heavy. As Parky implies there must be an additional layer of material. (Plus everything in you windproof's pockets would get wet presumably...)

Hence I presume the combination would presumably run incredibly hot too...

If the above "Paramo Analogy" jackets weigh call it 850g and the (liner-free) Fuera jacket is 530g, liner we are missing would be a mere 230g!

So... do Paramo sell a hyrophobic liner thing as a separate?

I can see that they sell shirts made of "Parameta S" which appears to "direct water to the non-fleecy side", but I am correct to presume that this is not the same thing as having a (hydrophobic) "Parameta P" liner built into the jacket... ?

What I'm building up to ask it is the (Windproof) Fuera Jacket *PLUS* a "Parameta S" base layer - such as a 420g Parameta Trail Shirt - actually waterproof (e.g. in a prolonged) downpoor?!

What about having *two* Parameta S shirts on top of each other? i.e. One acting as a base layer, the next acting as a liner.

Gads! Now I'm confused about the different Parameta versions. Let me try and get my head around them:

"Parameta S" - Assymetrical wicking. Smooth layer attracts water from fleecy layer...

"Parameta T" - For wicking. "Reversible" ie Sooth surface one side of material.

"Parameta A" - For wicking. For "active travel"

"Parameta P" - Used in my Paramo Analogy jackjet liner. Hydrophobic. (i.e Not for wicking?!)


...Anyhow can one buy a "Parameta P" (hydrophobic) liner as a separate?!

And would it create a down-pour proof combination if used with a Fuera?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ship,
i use a fuera with an explorer pull on which I believe is parameta S.

works for me even in heavy rain...
lighter than taiga fleece..

and another thing whe.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz too late fallen asleep

Ship,
get a life!

No there's no seperate "Parameta P" liner available. I doubt if anything other than say a Paramo Taiga fleece would provide the correct combination with the Fuera jacket to provide a waterproof top. Certainly the shirts won't because the "wick" and don't pump. At best in prolonged rain you'd end up wet but probably still warm.

A friend of mine has tried a Paramo Andorra fleece with a Fuera jacket but isn't convinced that it works that well. I can belive that, as based on a large size the Taiga fleece has a snugger fit implying that more body heat gets into the fleece improving its pump action. I certainly find the Taiga fleece warmer than the Andorra fleece but the Andorra fleece is also 100 grams lighter. Where did the weight go? In reducing the size of the pump liner? Who knows.

Just buy the kit...... you know it makes sense! :-)

Terrier..... more like rabid vole.... mutter, mutter, mutter......

OK --- Just to clarify


There was some confusion in names -- last year we decided to simplify --

All Parameta fabrics are now hydrophilic --that is 'wicking' - including Parameta S,T, and A

All ANALOGY fabrics and fabric combinations are now hydrophobic - water-repellent - including the Waterproof System And the PUMP LINER and the Fleece.

All of the fabrics direct liquid water in one way or another and re therefore 'Directional'.

I apologise for the confusion around this.

Having logical branding has been one of our weak points.

but not the explorer fuerer combination?

Nick

Whilst you are about in an earlier post i mentioned that SARDA England an SARDA Scotland are issued Paramo and so are some MRTs i was challenged on this point could you clarify which teams have adopted Paramo as their clothing of choice apart from the one im a member of,of course.