I quite like the Harvey's maps. Aren't the 15m contours an attempt to reduce clutter?

Not all OS 1:25000 maps have a 10m contour - some lowland ones are at 5m intervals, so it could be argued that the 10m contour in upland areas has the same aim. Add to that the intermediate (dotted)contours Harveys add where a significant feature lies between two 15m contours, and you may actually be getting more informaiton. I also like the fact that you get more information about the vegetation so that you can plan to avoid uncrossable gorse!

Oh, and I remember when 1:50000 OS maps had 15m contours, because it was a simple conversion from the previous 50ft ones!

And look at their Ben Nevis one, with the blow up of the summit area on the back and Trail beating directions to get off safely.

I've not noticed that intermediate contour, Damien - sounds like a good idea.

I've been taking a look on the Harvey Maps website, and I v. much like the look of those spiral bound books they've brought out to cover areas like the Lakes.

It also seems to me that the Harvey Maps are less bulky than the OS, which is an advantage if - for some reason - it's necessary to carry a bunch of them.

Hi Peewiglet, Just in case you haven't seen it, Harveys (in conjunction with BMC) are publishing a Lakes map. http://www.thebmc.co.uk/news_det.asp?item_id=888

This should address some walker and climber specific needs don't you think? and cut down the pesky bulkiness as you say... Imho it's good when there are publishers competing to produce the good, effective products for our £'s.

Love your website by the way.

The Harveys/BMC Lakes map is the first printed on a synthetic material that is crease, crack and waterproof. I've used US maps printed on this stuff and it really is good. You can fold the map to any size you want without damaging it.

The Lakes map covers virtually all the Lakes and is 1:40,000.

Is the map on Tyvek Chris? It's bombproof.

I like the 'sound' of 100% waterproof... tho' I'm sure that I've heard that somewhere else before!

The maps I've got just say "waterproof plastic". Looking closely at them I can see that the data is wearing off fold lines slightly, although the material is intact.

The current Harveys maps are waterproof. I've used them in heavy rain and wet snow without problems.

Wow, brilliant thanks, John-Paul! I'd not seen that, but I'll be getting one asap.

(Thanks for your kind words about my website: I'm v. glad you enjoyed it :-)

CT: Yep, very impressed with durabilty of Harvey's maps - they take the kind of abuse that a map shouldn't have to! - my gabbro ground superwalker still looks pretty good.

PW: Let's hope that they get the thing published when they say they will then - I think that it's going to be a popular one :-) also interesting to see that BMC obviously rate Harvey maps pretty highly.

I prefer the OS 1:25k. The presence of field boundaries on the map makes crossing valleys (or entire non-mountainous maps) much easier.

Harvey's maps are alien to me. I could use them, sure (a map's a map, in the end) but when I look at an OS map I can *see* the terrain. That's because I've been using the things since I was an Air Scout.

On compasses: I have a very robust sighting compass. It's a Cammenga, the model that the US army uses. It's squaddie-proof.

On GPS: I don't like to rely on anything powered by batteries. Even today, Pilots will still use an E6B rather than an electronic flight computer, and I'll still use a map and compass instead of GPS. I'm competent with them, and I won't ever face the screen fading to nothing as the batteries breathe their last.

Any reason to leave GPS out of the picture entirely, Brianetta, simply because you're confident with M&C? I'm never sure why people seem to see this as a one or the other issue.

I lost track of this thread but have found it again. A map is a map is a map. It can't be anything else and it can't pretend to be anything different. So if someone has already accurately mapped an area what else is there to do? Well you can't improve on the mapping itself but you can make subtle changes to the presentation throught the use of different papers, different areas, and different scales. The problem is you can't use the same symbols so you have to invent new ones and if the old ones are the best you will just have to invent second best.
I don't like Harveys maps so I haven't used them much but do they cover the whole of the UK or just the popular areas? If not then Harveys users will have to get used to two sets of symbols and presentation anyway. I could be completely wrong here but cherry picking the most popular and profitable areas is what insurance companies do isn't it. Giving the customer what they want and increased competition leading to improvements in quality, service and value! NOT!
God forbid Harveys become really successful and other companies enter the market flooding us with a plethora of new improved walker friendly maps specially designed with you in mind ultralight paper and a patented self cleaning action, anti-glare and uv resistant, eco-friendly bio degradable free range bloody maps!!! Oh and they would all have to have their own key symbols and contour gradients and colour schemes and areas and scales and ...
Heigh Ho live and let live thats what I say room for all:)

Harveys maps are designed for walkers, OS maps are designed for everybody. Nothing wrong with the latter and, as I've said, I use OS maps but I do find Harveys have better and clearer information for hill walking.

Also OS maps are not always accurate and I certainly don't think they have the best symbols. Some of their maps, like the 1:25,000 map of the Cuillin, are just about unusable.

Harveys are a serious mapping company originally set up to provide maps for orienteers (hence the high quality of the detail). Debate the merits of OS and Harveys by all means but insulting Harveys and hoping that there aren't successful so there will be no competition for the OS seems a very negative and depressing attitude.

Harveys are quite successful already. I hope they become much more successful. Without them we would have poorer maps and higher prices.

As it is, when will the OS get round to printing their maps on waterproof materials?

I agree with everything Chris says.

I can't understand comments about Harveys not being "proper maps". The rest of Philip's post is funny though, sounds a bit like an Eddie Izzard flight of fancy.

Is it meant to be funny Philip? I wasn't sure but then I read the last line and was reassured :)

I think it was a class rant, this is obviously a pet topic of Philip's! His mood will be improved even further, i'm sure, when I say that I am now intrigued by Harvey maps and think I will try one. A map that actually shows impassable gorse separately from navigable vegetation sounds invaluable, and this Lakes A-Z sounds intriguing - anyone know if it's available yet?

NNPB, it's published in Novemeber apparently... let's see if it happens - I work in publishing, so I know what I'm being cynical about ;)

I'm confused.
Philip rants about the undesirability of Harvey maps but ends by saying, "Heigh Ho live and let live thats what I say room for all:)".
A bit schizo wouldn't you say?
His post is funny though but he evoked Basil Fawlty for me, not Eddy Izzard.
Bet he's good company down the pub.

LOL John-Paul, I hear you there! I assume though that Harveys aren't a flash Spanish design publisher with an over-ambitious schedule, so it shouldn't be more than a couple of months late...

I've met Susan Harvey and she really is enthusiastic about mapping - no really! They're not a faceless corporate...

When the map appears, I'm sure it will be truly worthwhile... I wonder who'll get first sight of it?

NNPB
It's the Harveys/BMC 1:40k MAP (i.e traditional folded thing) that's due out November. There already is a Harveys Lake District Atlas, spiral bound, covering the whole Nat. Park over about 100 pages at 1:40k, for £15 I think.

Not sure if the BMC map is going to have different / additional information, or cover exactly the same area.