New on here so apologies if this has been discussed before. I am considering buying an Akto tent and wondered if it was worthwhile paying the extra for the whole tent footprint. I will be backpacking in Scotland

Garry

I have one for my Quasar, but then I did persuade the shop to throw it in free.

Not much help I know but worth a try. Free is good!

oddly enuff I thought the same and finally bought one for my akto - overallI am glad I did tho it obviously adds weight to the backpacking load

on reflection - possibly not in summer.......

a

footprints are good bits of kit for protecting and prolonging the life of your ground sheet.

Drew

does the footprint for the quasar cover the porches aswell?

rob

Am I the only one who thinks footprints are unnecessary weight and expense? "Prolonging the life of your groundsheet " sounds good until you ask "how long do groundsheets last if you don't use a footprint?" When was the last time anyone here had a groundsheet expire for lack of a footprint, and how hard was it to make a satisfactory field repair when/if it happened? I think everyone who has contributed to this thread so far has said, in effect, that they use footprints to avoid what they imagine might happen if they don't.

If the worst does happen and the rest of the tent outlasts the groundsheet, buy some suitable material from Pennine Outdoor and replace the original groundsheet then - but not until/unless that happens. The repair will be very easy if you can find anyone with a sewing machine who knows how to drive it.

AF from a man who has had 2 ground sheets expire/tear on him i think that for the cost and the weight penalty its worth it.

A field repair doesn't count for squat when your sleeping bag is wet and numerous other bits of kit and the water that has been absorbed weighs 4 times the weight of the GSP.

But that is my opinion and i'm gonna say it.

i have got an atko--i use old fashioned roll up foam mat ----under groundsheet ----footprint and sleep mat in one

Cruxster man,
O.K., you've got me interested. I agree that a wet sleeping bag outweighs a footprint - at least until it dries out -, and your experience seems to blow my theory out of court, but I must admit you have surprised me by having had two groundsheets tear under you. So that I/we all can learn a little more, can you please give more details of what happened and why. You use the word "tear" rather than "puncture". Is this distinction important or just a random choice of words? If "tear" is accurate, was the groundsheet perished? Were you and a ladyfriend subjecting the groundsheet to strains it was never meant to resist? More details please (but carefully edited in the latter case).

One sheet tore during an onslaught of tent flattening winds( and it really did many times ) which was blowing on Bowfell in Febuary 2002, all was fine with the tent except 4 very bent poles and the ground sheet which ended up with a 4 inch stress tear in it at the pole intersection point.

The other GS is no longer water proof and i am still in dispute with Vango for repair/replacement, this is due to exceptional wear and tear according to them, my argument is that after circa 100 nights use on a top end expedition tent that the GS should outlast the flysheet.

Please bear in mind that out of the 9 tents I own only 3 of them get used at campsites, Eurohike Solway, TNF Merlin 33 and WC homestead 10, the rest of them get used at a minimum altitude of 2000ft asl and therefor are subjected to far greater stresses and wear than the ones i only use at low level.

The only tents I dont use a GSP on is the eurohike (cos its worth less than a gsp) and my pro action 1 man £20 argos super tent!!!!

I have to take into account that the most sheltered spot to strike camp at 2500ft asl could be rocky and very wet and not the perfect choice but to ensure that I don't get a free 65mph flying lesson courtesy of Mother nature I will put my tent up there and anchor it to the mountain.

I have on several occasions left my tent for the day with very heavy winds blowing (my idea of a heavy wind is 50mph+ )and have used the GSP inside the tent and laden it with rocks to make sure my tent is still pitched where i left it when i come back in the evening.

Also for £20 which is the average cost of a GSP I would rather pay that than rip a GS on a tent which costs 20x that amount.

So there you go the reasons.

Drew

I have an Akto which I use only when backpacking. If going on a weekend trip then normally I would take my footprint since the extra weight is not significant.
For long distance trips I forgo the footprint as I try to go down to minimal weight.
For long distance trips where I use mostly huts but just occasional camps then I will take flysheet and footprint only. Note that this last combination can be used by two people.

CM, I paid £15 for my Pro Action 1 man Argos super tent. Now I suppose we'll both have to wait to hear from one of those smug gits who held out a little longer and only had to pay £5.

I think the jury is out on this one - I have a Nallo GT footprint and whilst I thik its conserved warmth/reduced condensation/prolonged groundsheet life I do recommend you take it off separtely when dismantling the tent cos in my experience with the Nallo it just added to the flappy bits when I next tried to pitch it in high winds!

a

I don't use one, but Bob C uses a piece of very light, compressible material (a light version of that blue, synthetic stuff with a woven sort of appearance that some feedsacks are made from - know what I mean?), and it's crossed my mind to look some out from B&Q.

As much as the idea that it protects the groundsheet, I liked the fact that he can put it down and lie on it to check out a proposed pitch to make sure it doesn't go down at both end (as my weekend pitch did - doh...)

Its worth poiunting out that the Atko footprint covers the porch area as well as underneath the inner. I find this usefull to protect your stuff from muddy/wet ground, and without it I would take some basic plastic sheeting for the porch area.
I generally carry the Atko with the inner and outer separated, and sometimes I will just set up the outer and the footprint and then mooch and make supper etc. Having something to cover the ground makes this a lot easier. You can also leave the inner at home and turn it all into a tarp if you want!

Having said that, as was pointed out on another thread recently (TGO challenge?) you can use other things like a suvival bag or a both bag under the ground sheet as a footprint. So if you are taking them anyway you might as well put them to this alternative use and save the weight of a proper footprint.

Nothing to do with footprints this but I've heard a few people mention they carry a Hilleberg Akto with the inner and outer separated. Deciding to give this a go I tried it 2 weeks ago in Snowdonia on mine.

Pitch time was in driving rain and strong winds and really quite cold for the time of year, more like March. Setting up the outer was straightforward as usual even in strong winds. Trying to attach the inner was anything but straightforward. Something you've practised at home in a nice warm, sheltered garden is a different ball game when you're tired, wet and your hands are frozen (yes, frozen in late May). It's much harder to think straight in these conditions.

Anyway, it took me at least an extra half hour of faffing and cursing trying to attach the tiny toggles with cold hands in a confined space made worse by the fact that I had to go out and repeg the tent less tautly because some toggles wouldn't reach.

I determined that I'd never carry this tent separated again. If I want more headroom in future it's much easier to unclip the inner above my head

I've used very thin expanded polythene (yes, polythene) wrapping sheet as a GSP for some time. It's the sort of stuff that comes around TVs and other electrical goods, and a much thinner version of that used for laminate floor underlay. One advantage over simple coated fabrics is that it provides some insulation, thus preventing condensation on the floor of the tent.

When car camping, I take a sheet of the thicker laminate floor underlay (actually mine is also packaging, but it's the same stuff; JiffyFoam). Being thicker, it provides more protection, more cushioning, and more insulation.

I'd also thought about using Tyvek for a GSP, and found the the very interesting Ben Corr Podcast at Bob's backpackinglight. Ben was building a bug-shelter for use under a tarp on the PCT, using a Tyvek groundsheet. He said that one outdoor retailer in the US had a roll of the stuff, and clients were free to cut a chunk off for groundsheet use.

Hi, this isn't really relative to the whole 'is a footprint neccessary to prolong life of a groundsheet' debate, but the reason I don't use one is in contrast to Dandymountainman's point of a footprint being useful if it covers the porch. I find this a hindrance as any gear you want to keep dry can be kept in the inner portion of the tent, and anything that is already dirty (boots, gaiters) can be placed on the grass in the porch. If the porch is left uncovered, the grass will be relatively dry within 6 hours of the tent going up, but if a sheet is put over it, any water from the sole of boots, or wet clothing will collect on the sheet and form a lake in your porch....I have found this to be a pain, so I don't use a footprint!

I think there are good points allround to the pro's and con's of using a footprint.
I would agree that putting the inner up with frozen fingers is hard. If I'm that cold I generally have a cup-a-soup first! Once unfrozen, I get the inner up in 2-3 minutes.

With the Atko's footprint you can fairly easily unhook the bit near the bottom of the pole. Then you can pull back part of it to uncover half of the porch area. Then you can put wet stuff there, or put your burner directly on the ground (I'm always worried about melting the footprint from the heat from the stove. Maybe rubbish that). There isn't a hell of a lot of room inside the inner, so I like to leave everything I don't really want in the night outside. Slug infestation occasionally leads me to regret this tho...

But to return to the main topic, the Atko's groundsheet strikes me as a pretty robust one. I always check the ground carefully before I pitch it, and to be frank I have never worried about it from that score.