Reiver, 'romantic' seems a bit of an unnecessary term to apply to this, although I think I can see where you're coming from. I just didn't think I'd seen any comment on here treating the idea of digging in as anything but a serious matter. Getting off the hill is obviously preferable but it isn't always possible - it depends what you're doing and where. At times in places like the Cairngorms, and certainly in Norway when you're maybe 20km from the nearest hut, being able to dig in can be the only way to stay alive - and an effective shovel is an essential.
And then of course there are the times that you plan to snowhole - but there's no way I'm carrying a builder's shovel on a two-week ski tour! :)
Btw, I gave my Snowclaw Guide a basic try out on Kinder Scout today, and it was quite effective. I'm not ssure yet what its limit is for making an impression through hard, icy snow, and it won't replace my Voile metal shovel for serious trips, but I reckon it's well worth carrying at other times, definitely far better than nothing at all.
Snow shovels aren't just for emergencies; I've used mine, a BD Lynx, for digging out snowed-in shelter cairns, building windbreaks, seats, all kinds of non-emergency stuff.
Ok, to some folk you might look a bit of a numpty carrying a shovel but, come lunchtime, it's nice to able to enjoy your pieces* in comfort.
My comments were aimed very much at the emergency aspect of the snow shovel. A lot of people do carry them thinking that they may be of use in an emergency. You can always spot the novices heading up onto the north face of the Ben with their snow shovels attached, it is sort of like having a large sign attached saying I have never done this before! Of course they have their uses in expeditions and planned nights out, I have built and have spent quite a few nights in snow holes it is a great experience. But for emergencies NO. You would probably not be able to find a suitable snow pack, then without a lot of experience you probably would not be able to construct one! A likely outcome is that after half an hour of digging you would hit the ground, your rucksack may of disappeared under spindrift and worst of all you find yourself soaked in sweat and still need to get off the hill.
Fair comments Reiver! :) I think what you say here applies to the vast majority of present-day UK winter conditions. And if you can't get off the hill then whatever natural shelter you can find, plus a bothy bag and warm clothing/sleeping bag/blizzard bag are likely to be the more practical option. But for other locations the situation may well be different - I do a lot of my winter activity in Norway and digging in is far more practical generally there (I've never had to do it in an emergency but I have friends who have), and a shovel is imo an absolute essential.
I have been looking finally at choosing the non-telescoping shorter handled snow shovel by Black Diamond, available for only £20.00 quid in a sale at the moment. It is quite compacrt and lightweight by the look of it with a light metal blade construction, rather than the plastic variety-which is I feel what I want for winter camping this next wintertime. I wondered though if it would be better for me maybe to get a telescoping or simply longer handled one maybe after all though, does anyone think? Perhaps for reasons that I have not thus far considered too well, or even just simply plain perhaps overlooked as yet! I have not had much use for one over the years myself, so wondered if there was someone on here using them maybe much more often, that could perhaps better advise and inform my eventual purchase decision here please?Many thanks guys!
nb - Sorry I could not find the thread I started on this a while back ago, so thought I would tack this question onto the end of this older thread here instead!
usual game for these things... different designs do different things better than others, so you've got to decide what your "things" are.
Plastic blades are lighter, but you can forget about any real progess in hard nevee, which may or may not be a problem depending where you're using it for what: digging debris out, or a seat in the snow, not much of an issue, making snow caves in old snow you'll be lucky! Flat blades are better for clearing soft debris, curved blades are better for hacking off ice (found this out digging a snow cave into a hard bank: the curve-bladed Norwegian shovel was a much better tool for the tunneling, but a flat bladed Voile was much better for clearing the product or the labour).
Then you've got wildcards like the BCA shovels which take other tools like probes and saws in the handles. The Nordic ski club I'm in has a load of those, but they're a bit heavy for my liking, and I prefer my separate Ortovox carbon probe to the BCA ones. Telescopic handles are a Good Thing, but OTOH they weigh a bit more. if it's not telescopic the short/long decision goes back to whether it's more of an emergency device or a routine device, and you want a longer handle if you'll be using it a lot. D handles are better then Ts for big jobs, but they're heavier and bulkier.
I've got a metal bladed Voile with a telescopic handle and T grip. No real complaints, but more sharply curved blades as typically seen on Norwegian ski touring packs are better for tunneling into nevee.
Ah, Peter's just saved me writing so much!! Lots of sound advice there Trevor .
I've come to the conclusion that a metal bladed shovel is best in the mountains, despite the bit of extra weight. (I now just keep my polycarbonate bladed one in the car all winter.)
My own is a Voile Mini which weighs about 650 and has a telescopic T handle. I've looked at those Black Diamond ones - they look funky but I'm not convinced, and the finish didn't seem great. On the recent OM Winter Skills we had less than an hour to dig a shelter - I managed one I could get into in that time using my Voile, sometimes with the short handle, sometimes with the extended handle, and sometimes with no handle at all! Versatility is good!!
Consider too what other tools you'd have. An ice axe adze can hack through hard areas where the shovel struggles, but obviously not so fast. A snow saw can be brilliant (the WS instructor nicked mine and built a sitting coffin shelter with a blocked over roof better than any of our basic holes in the time - the swine ) and needn't weigh much (mine is 250g). I agree with Peter and prefer my separate carbon probe, and a lot of snow saws that hide in shovel handles are pretty rubbish too.
As an alternative to the BD shovel you mentioned take a look at this
Not a bad price or weight, and you can add the telescopic handle extension if you wish.
One last point - you mention winter camping next winter - is this in the UK? As I suspect with Peter, most of my shovel use and experience stems from Norwegian trips on skis. 20 years ago I's have considered a shovel worthwhile in UK winter conditions but with the winters we get these days I'm very selective about carrying it. You can find the conditions to dig shelters but often you'll have to go and deliberately seek them out. I'd carry the weight of a metal shovel and my saw if I intended to dig a shelter, or on any trip into the high Cairngorms. Outside of that I'd certainly be assessing each trip for it's potential value, and if I thought I might just want the contingency of being able to do a bit of snow work to enhance a bivvy spot or tent pitch then I'd be more likely to settle for the light weight of a Snowclaw Guide to supplement my ice axe.
FWIW, I bought a BCA Tour recently - my old shovel was knackered. Got the extension, too, but without this, it weighs only 454 gm. Reckon to take extension if planning to dig, not if for emergencies or travelling light. Looks really good, but we did not get enough snow in Scotland recently to be able to play. Impressed so far tho.
Thanks very much there indeed for all of that great info above given here guys! You have certainly given me a good bit to think on and chew over in the next few days before I make my final snow shovel purchase decision!Thanks especially for the Snowclaw info there too Matt, as I had been looking to buy one of them for some good time now. I originally noticed one a good couple of years ago back, as an item included into the advised bush-pilots aviators survival pak line, on the Equipped to Survive site there, that they also sell. It was a backpack full up to the brim of the best available outdoors survival kit brands, designed/picked by Doug Ritter of Equipped to Survive website and foundations fame.Cheers good sir!
Yes, Pete I was indeed thinking of the snowy wastes of America or Canada even for later on in the year hopefully really!Edit - And likely the Cairngorms National Parks area a bit before, to wet my whistle a bit again maybe!
Yes, Pete I was indeed thinking of the snowy wastes of America or Canada even for later on in the year hopefully really!
In which case I'd keep your money for now. Most of the stuff we've been talking about comes from N. America and it's always been cheaper there, as well as better selections being available in places with snow to play in. And now with the dollar as low as it is, an even better reason to wait until you're there before buying.
Cheers again there Peter!I will consider that as it is a good and sensible idea I know really! Especially with the Dollar value on the pound still very much in flux right now! At present even the Euro is doing well against the dollar too it seems! I am already as it is planning on leaving quite a bit of other stuff to eventually get over there too, if I can do-especially outdoors/survival books from USA publishers for the trip back as per my usual habit! I want a new stove out there for definite, and a good few other bits and bobs as well taboot-and could leave the main snow shovel purchase till then too I suppose-the only real danger being of course then, that I will spend most all my time shopping (as I foolishly ended up doing once before on my first ever trip out there) and littler time actually out in the actual thing I went to see, the great American great outdoors! I am currently now looking into getting one of the SnowClaws devices too as a stop gap measure, from the link given by Matt, as think it a good essential stop gap bit of kit-just for in case I do manage to get in some time before all else then, up in the good old lovely Cairngorms here.I have emailed the shop in question there for further details of what stock they actually do have in on the lines there in question right this minute now too! As the website is rather completely confusing there, as most of the stuff pictured is described too there as being out of stock, or else maybe even discontinued lines for that particular suppliers. And too there is no mention of whether they can do or get for sale the accessory straps for that device similarly; which will make it easier to clip onto a backpack, as intended by the designers, and too to use in one or two of the advised rather clever design ways there pictured on the manufacturers website in the States.
Many thanks guys!
) and needn't weigh much (mine is 250g). I agree with Peter and prefer my separate carbon probe, and a lot of snow saws that hide in shovel handles are pretty rubbish too.
