Hi everyone, I was thinking about investing in both an Alpkit Down Jacket and bag for a trip to the Himalyas in October (Annapurna region - will be over 4000 metres. Could anyone recomend which alpkit bag and jacket would best suit my trip and for general walking/mountain use thereafter...Alpine Dream or Pipe Dream? Filo, Filium or Fantom Jacket? Many thanks for any advice, it is greatly appreciated... John
You may want to review the fill power & qualities of the Alpkit product. Fantom is only a 700+ fill power on the EN scale & uses Chinese down, which is a much lower specification than other high altitude/Mountain manufacturers.
You need to be looking at 800 + EN Scale, which is the equivalent of a american branded product 900+.
So Rab, Haglofs, Marmot 800+ is the same as a Mountain Hardwear, TNF 900+
As far as down quality goes you want to source polish goose down as this is specifically bred for down garment manufacture, is highest quality & gives the best loft possible to the garment, no beaks & claws in the jkts baffles. Chinese down is a by product of the food market, the down is younger & therefore does not loft as well therefore is not as warm.
Also research which manufacturers loose pack their garments for transport, nobody wants a down jkt/bag that has been crushed in a container for months as it breaks the lofting capacity of the garment.
Most euopean manufacturers loose pack theirs I know Haglofs send theirs loose packed from factory.
Make sure it is warm enough, at altitude you might regret it !!!
Er, I hate to be controversial, but the Alpkit stuff is a very decent spec for the money and more than adequate for trekking in the Annapurna region, particularly in October, which is quite early in the season.
Yes, you can buy lighter stuff using better down, but you'll pay around twice the price. We're talking about trekking here, not hanging out on the South Col :-)
I was just about to come in with my two pence worth which was that it is entirely possible to do the Annapurna circuit trek without a sleeping bag (or at least not a full-spec one).
As, John J, you have not specified what you're doing in Annapurna, it's hard to say, but if it's a classic teahouse trek then you can get away with an ultralight bag and ask for lots of blankets. I was there in March in deep snow without a sleeping bag. I slept in my bivvy bag (to keep out the draughts and some of the lice!) and down jacket in the guest house bunks, getting extra blankets when needed. That gave me adequate emergency protection and saved me a lot of weight.
We did the Kangchenjunga North and South base camp trek in late October / early November last year - 2 Filos and I had my Alpinedream. The Filos were fine at Pengpema - the highest camp at 5100m where we spent a couple of nights. Would have liked the new hooded versions however! Temperatures were down to -13 under the flysheet - I'm a warm sleeper and needed nothing else other than the bag. Ok as long as you don't have to carry it! We also have Pipedream 600s for backpacking - they work a treat for early / late 3 season Scottish camping. My wife changed to a Pipedream after realising how much warmer it was than her Mountain Equipment lightweight down bag (it would be - it has more down!) which is now reserved for summer use. I think the Pipedream would have been fine for all but the highest (and clearest night sky) camps for me - indeed, preferable at lower altitudes when the Alpinedream was largely slept on rather than in!
If John J is trekking the Annapurna circuit, the highest night is at Thorang Phedi (4500m) and there is indoor accommodation to be had. I had a Rab Glacier Active Jacket from 1996 which was one of the few choices on offer in the UK at the time and probably corresponds to the Filo (with a detachable hood).
Otherwise, if you are camping out then I am sure that the Alpkit bags would be great value and fit for purpose.
Hey everyone, thanks a lot for all the advice, it has cleared up a few of my concerns. My girlfriend and i have not yet decided our itinery, that is to say whether we are going to do the Annapurna circuit, BC or both. We are going independently (tea house trekking) and probably without guide or porter + we are first timers in Nepal. We have however both spent time in the Cairngorms in winter conditions so we understand what it is like to be cold! I would love top grade kit but after buying my airline tickets, and handing over a lot of hard earned cash in the process, the Alpkit gear is very tempting! If you guys have any general advice regarding our trip or perhaps which trek is most suited to us (time is not an issue)i would be very happy to hear it...Thanks again for all your help, John
Hi guys, in terms of kit for the trip, is it worth taking a gore-tex or would it be better to rely on the down jacket(Are Alpkit jackets windproof? they don't have pertex shells...) and get a Nepali poncho when we arrive to protect from any rain?
When I trekked Annapurna I mostly used a windproof and took a very lightweight waterproof, which I never actually needed - though it can rain, conditions tend to be more settled than the UK.
The Alpkit down stuff will effectively be windproof, but too warm to actually walk in. Down jackets are great for sitting round in the evening and for lunch stops etc when you're high up.
One point it's worth clarifying is that Alpkit gear is cheap not because it's low quality, but because by designing and sourcing their own products and selling direct on the web, the guys have slashed their production costs and overheads, which means that they can reduce their retail prices and still make a profit.
It depends what you have already. A down jacket will need to be kept dry, especially if you plan on using it as part of your sleep insulation. I think it safe to say that all down jackets are pretty windproof under sensible definitions – they are made with very fine weave materials to stop the down escaping. The problem of relying on a down jacket for wind proofing is that it has to be very cold indeed to merit wearing one whilst trekking. It’s warm work lugging yourself and kit up those wee hills and sweating heavily into a down jacket can badly affect the insulation! Invest in a lightweight windproof if you don't have one already... they are a very useful addition and will serve you well for wandering around Kathmandu under an umbrella!
Ponchos are supposed to be good for Nepali trekking, providing good ventilation and cover for you and your packs. Little umbrellas strung to your rucksack are also quite popular for shading your head and neck and deflecting showers. But umbrellas and ponchos are pretty useless if there’s a strong wind. When I was in Annapurna (February March), I generally trekked in just a baselayer, adding a locally purchased (i.e. cheap copy TNF) fleece if it turned cold. I slung on my Goretex anytime we stopped for a short break to avoid flash-off cooling, and only dug out the down jacket in the evening and to sleep in. The Goretex could have been replaced with a nice light windproof but I didn’t have one with me, having travelled overland from South India.
If you’re going to BC in October and have a Goretex or equivalent then you should certainly take it. It can rain/snow at any time there (I have been a couple of times in the summer, and many times to Eastern Canada in winter).
Trying to summarise my ramblings, a Gore-Tex (or other waterproof/breahtable jacket) is not strictly necessary for a Nepal teahouse trek as 1) you can use local waterproofs to cope with the worst of the rain and 2) you’ll almost always be able to warm and dry out by the fire in the evenings. A Down jacket is a good idea provided you can keep it dry. 3) A thick synthetic insulation layer, such as Primaloft or Polarguard, might solve both your problems as it isn’t as badly affected by damp, dries out faster than down and costs and weighs less than a down + Gore-Tex. For BC the case for a waterproof-breathable jacket is stronger in my opinion as you’ll likely be camping (less opportunity to dry out) and the prevailing weather is more prone to rainstorms than post-monsoonal Nepal.
Thanks John & Jon, you have both been a great help. I already own a decent Gore-Tex so i'm a bit reluctant to buy a wind cheater (although i'm sure it would prove to be a good piece of outer wear for cycling e.t.c) even though weight is going to be a key issue. It sounds like the base camp can be quite arduous. I guess there is potential avalanche risk due to Hiunchuli coupled with less time to acclimatise? Are decent three season leather boots good enough to deal with the snow conditions? Would you recomend doing the circuit?
Yes – do the circuit. It is one of the world’s greatest walks. Sadly, I was forced to turn back at Manang after a bit of an epic, having tried to get through the pass too early in the season. The tale gets better over the years, but essentially includes freak snowfall blocking the pass completely and keeping us in an under-resourced teahouse for a week while 90% of the occupants (including me) came down with dysentery. Plus one of my friends got carbon monoxide poisoning from a charcoal heater (be warned)! We backtracked along the path we came up on, but meltwater had triggered huge mudslides and much of the trail had disappeared into the valley. It was an absolutely breathtaking place (perhaps even more dramatic than the Everest base camp trek which I did a couple of years before). On my return to the UK I became a guinea-pig for the medical establishment as I had brought rare passengers in my gut (cyclosporiasis). But despite all the unpleasantness - breaking through the ice to get water to wipe my bum with, for example - and the 10 kilos I lost in a couple of weeks, I hope to return and complete the circuit someday. Perhaps if I need to lose some weight again…!
Three season boots will be ideal. I had some Scarpa Alp M4s (4-season B2 compatible boots like the current Manta M4) on both treks, but they were stiffer than strictly necessary. I have problem feet so considered the trade-off of weight for protection worth taking, and I had used them for some time so knew that they would be comfortable. If you have boots suitable for winter walking in the UK then they’ll be fine for the Annapurna circuit.
The only thing you can do about avalanche risk is to take local knowledge and advice. There are guides leading groups around all season and they talk to each other about recent conditions. If you are the least bit concerned, consider taking a guide who’ll help you to find good accommodation and advise you on the trek, as well as set a sensibly slow pace to cope with altitude and put you in touch with the local way of life. It supports their economy at grassroots level and could make the trip more enjoyable depending on your outlook.
