Hi John,

I'm not really sure about the price. The first time I heard about the jacket was the summer of 2005. Estimated price was then $300. Now, I haven't got a clue howfar the design has changed since then (nor why it takes them so long to release the jacket) so how relevant that price still is I don't know. Last time I mailed Valandré they could tell me when the jacket would be available but I got the feeling somewhere in 2007. That hasn't happened but I hope it should be anytime soon.

How did you get the 500 gram figure?

The specs I have for a size L are 375 g total weight with a down fill of 160 g.  Even if your figure is for a size XL, a difference of 125 g seems a lot to me.

I phoned them. The 500g was a very 'approximate' figure from the woman I spoke with for a Size XL Split-S prototype. The prototype used Pertex (presumably Quantum) rather than the Asahi Kasei of their newer models.

It turns out that they do sell 'seconds' and 'samples' direct from the factory so I may call in to see what they have. I say 'call in' but it would have to be whilst heading for something else as it's a two hour drive from home.

She told me that they hadn't defined the price of the commercial release product yet. But it will almost certainly be more than 200 Euros. In 2005, $300 was a lot more than it is now - at least if you are outside the USA. Perhaps that's one reason that they haven't been rushing to release it...

She also said that they had a sleeping bag called a Rando 350 (I think it was a lower-tech predecessor to the Mirage?) Ever heard of that?

Nope, I haven't heard about the Rando 350. Did they say anything about when the Split-S should be available?

The best guess was Spring '08... just when we all need a nice warm down jacket then!

Oh... and I think the Rando 350 is a lower spec version of the Mirage - no zip, about 700g, 350g fill. I'm not sure if the down is of the same quality either. 

I had a lengthy chat with an Au Vieux Campeur salesperson today and he was having his doubts about Valandre's down sourcing policy (were they now using imported European down?). It all starts to become folklore at some point... the Valandre kit certainly feels top quality. I was a bit shocked how short the cut of the Kiruna is, however.

Anyway, he tells me that the only French manufacturer that he is certain is still using local down is

http://www.triplezero.fr

Now they look very interesting too... I think they are only sold online or at their factory... further investigation to be done!

John 

Lil John,

the triple zero site is quite funny! Very French... They have listed their products by typical usage & altitude rather than giving them temperature ratings. The FAQ has something like this:

Pour quelle utilisation et température conseillez vous le BARBAT 1100 ?
Le BARBAT 1100 est le sac expé extrême, plus ce n'est pas utile.
C'est le sac pour les températures extrêmes.

Which roughly translates to :

What is the recommended temperature for use of the Barbat 1100?

The Barbat 1100 is the bag for extreme expeditions... saying anything more than that is a waste of time! It's the bag for extreme temperatures.

On the one hand, it makes some sense as no temperature guide is really very relevant... but on the other hand it makes it hard to compare with other brands. This suits French manufacturers very well - it seems Triple Zero is a bit like a Grand Cru Appelation for a wine... the categorisation was made 130 years ago but the price of the wine is determined from this reputation!

To help you choose, this page shows typical usage for products:

http://www.triplezero.fr/util.php?u=1

If you want a translation, let me know.

John

An update on the Valandré products for anyone interested...

OK... the Split S is in store in France. It's the first time I've looked in some time (probably since last winter).  I was in a bit of a hurry so didn't try it on... I'll have to take a closer look next time.

Good points :

it's not stitch-through. The boxes seem to be relatively thin compared to some, but its good to see another manufacturer offering a light weight box-wall jacket.

it looks smart. Not a big deal for me, but crucial for selling in that end of the market. Slim fit & clean lines.

online info indicate they are using an 800-850 fp down as for the rest of their range.

Not so good points :

It really didn't seem to have that much loft. I'd say that they have understuffed the compartments. Moreover, the jackets seemed quite variable (comparing a few of them in the store) - 'some are more equal than others', as they say.

No hood. Not even a detachable one.

Bad points :

Price. I recently bought myself a PHD Yukon pullover using the older spec 800fp down. Even at full price & with the new 900 down, it is significantly cheaper than the 329 Euros that the Split S is asking. The Yukon is much loftier (judging on my 800fp version); has a hood and weighs slightly less! (I'm not sure I believe the claimed weight, but Au Vieux Campeur catalogue puts the Split S at 529g. I'd say it was less than that; but hard to tell)

Moreover, the Split S is MORE expensive than Valandre's own Kiruna which sells for 299 Euros (at 700g a much more plump & cosy looking mountain jacket with a light built in hood that folds away into the collar). Prices in France are high for this kind of thing, but the Split S costs more than the Rab Neutrino Endurance & the same price as the Rab Summit. And these prices are greatly inflated compared to what they sell for in the UK.

In short, I think Valandre have made a nicely styled, cosy, lightweight down jacket but have priced it way over the odds. Now that I actually own a PHD garment, I'm glad I made the decision not to wait for the Split-S. I might not be so stylish, but I saved a lot of money and got a better product from what I can tell at first sight.

I guess that's what happens if you take 3 or 4 years to bring a new product to market; in the mean time farming your production out to Morocco...

Incidentally... no official mention of the Split-S (or the Looping vest version) on the Valandre sites.

Funny that they should be named after aerial manouvers used in disengaging from combat....

I really hope this doesn't spell the decline of Valandre as I liked a lot of their designs...

I think Valandre must be making a push into the US market John. A few folk on BPL.com are singing the praises of Valandre bags for extreme cold. One of them is a stockist though.

I think they are heavy compared to a lot of other manufacturers, for bags down to around the -10c range. I prefer centre zip bags and the La Fayette looks nice, but at a kilo, it's at least 200g heavier than competitors. Any idea what the French price is for it John?

As usual with these smaller companies, they don't often use the European standard for temperature measurements which makes comparisons very tricky. It's one reason why - at face value - the Crux Torpedo bags don't seem that warm. Down quality & down fill are the key numbers, but even these are hard to get.

Anyway, the Valandré designs are well considered and 'a bit different' meaning that they offer a nice alternative. I'm not sold on the Split-S at first glance (maybe I've been a bit harsh) but really like the Mirage & Lafayette bags... and would be happy with a Kiruna if it was a bit longer in the body.

My local mountain shop is excellent - good product knowledge & helpful staff (hard to achieve in France)... but it's at the top end of the pricing; you pay RRP unless you're lucky.

The Mirage sells for 309 Euros (a better buy than the MORE expensive Split-S IMO!)

The Lafayette sells for 399 Euros - the same price as the Rab Q600 Endurance over here. That's pretty fair given the very similar claimed weights and temperature range, and that the Q600 RRP is £300.

For 20 Euros less and 100g more, they also do the Blue 600 with a full side zip that might be more versatile (if slightly less cunningly made) than the Lafayette.

Pop on over & I'll show you round the shop

John

I could do with a wee break John, don't tempt me! 

You'd be very welcome, Mike. Seriously.

The shops is crammed with interesting stuff from brands we hardly hear of in the UK. Things like Vertical, Montura, Schoffel, Norrona...

And we're pretty close to the Pyrenees, though I've hardly had the time to get there

Guys, I live in Italy and EVERYONE is wearing Montura, Vertical etc... I used to buy MH, TNF etc, but these other brands really do take some beating and the price is fantastic... especially buying in Euros. After lots of summer and winter use I really suggest trying out some of these new brands, from the basic tops to the fantastic technical trousers and jackets... often I look at their gear and its got all the designs and changes that I would have made if I redesigned the top brands to have the things I want!