Conjectures and refutations are, as the man said, all there is to science.

Have a look at the Mizuno Wave Harrier. It is lighter and puts your foot closer to the ground than some of the other Mizuno Trail shoes, has very sensible studs which are widely spaced and don't clog, and comes in male and female versions.

My point exactly, ALS! Good to have a counter-example.

The main point on hiking on the flat is that moving your legs counts for a surprisingly small percentage of expended energy. Walking on the flat is only about three times as energetically challenging as being asleep - and of the motion, only about 10% of the energy is associated with swinging your legs. The rest, I imagine, is all the of the core and postural muscles maintaining balance and control over your movement.

In any case, the effect of boots versus shoes weight on the total energy expended during the day is pretty small all things considered.

lol JB

i love a good discussion. i should have made it clear that the physics bit was applied to the work done by your feet when wearing heavier footwear, unless in zero G this is absolute

with regards to support, it is all a matter of perspective . The best support is not to carry too much weight in the first place. Going up hill induces stresses on the back and musculature and the heavier the pack the worse it becomes. Conversely if going down hill it is the cartilage and joints that take the strain and again heavy packs overburden us

with regards to boots up scree, I concede the point you make and certainly boots will provide some support (especially against sharp edges!) but  but in terms of summer I still maintain it is better to use lighter boots or trail shoes to minimise the work your legs and body is doing but this should be combined with a realistic and hard look at the weights we carry  

As I said before, Dave, I think your advice is sound. But read a little of the inov8 thread and you'll see that people are wearing through their trail shoes in 150 miles. There's still a place in my heart for a good sturdy pair of boots, especially if you are on a budget!

yes JB,

I have been watching this thread. I have never bought any Inov8 shoes before and after reading this thread i might hold off a while and just concentrate on using my normal fabric boots and approach shoes until they fall to pieces!

For myself, the last time I used a pair of heavy boots was about 25 years ago. They were a great pair of boots (once I had worn them in - leather!) but I just kept turning my ankles in them becasue they restricted the movement of my lower legs and feet too much as so ended up causing me more problems than solutions. Of course part of the connundrum was using a heavy pack too!

I switched to a very lightweight non waterproof fabric ankle boot (nearer a trainer than a boot) and these lasted me for 10years and went all over Western, central and southern europe with me. Best pair of walking shoes/boots I ever owned.

I then switched to a waterproof fabric low ankle boot and these lasted me another 10 or so years!

At the moment I am using a very cheap pair of waterproof fabric boots that are probably the "heaviest" since my leather boots (although still pretty light) and also the ankle support is stiffer. Result? My ankles ache a bit more and my lower legs get tired a bit quicker. Hopefully they will stretch a bit more otherwise I may have to go to Argos to get a pair of "low tech" Hi-tec non waterproof trainer/booty/shooey things

My Asics trail running shoes have performed quite well until today on the scramble decent from Yewbarrow. Just can't trust 'em on wet rocks so to Dorehead was a bit 'sporty'.

They where really great on the Fairfield horseshoe yesterday though- running all the downhill nearly. Funnily I saw a big dome tent on Fairfield.

Just got my FiveTen CampFour approach shoes anyway.  I'll let you know how they stand up to Sharp Edge next week.

It might be expensive but you have to find what suits you and your specific activities in the long run (sic).

Many will promote what they wear and find comfortable....that will not suit those with the clodhoppers of an ungulate.

Trial and error is the way forward alas.

I am lucky; most 'trainers' suit me and I tend toward the lightweight. Both in banter and footwear.

I was just wondering because, for good conditions I have some Montrail Highlanders but I hate having wet feet and don't like gore-tex shoes so wear Meindle Borneo pros for harsher conditions, And even though they are more than half a kilo heavier than the montrails I still consider them pretty lightweight for a 4 season boot. I wsa just wondered if people just considered say less than 1.5 kilos (size 8) lightweight or if it was more like less than 1.2 kilos (lightweight) because many boots marketed as lightweight are a fair bit heavier than my Meindls

I wouldnt get hung up on labels of whether something is called "lightweight" or not. Just compare their weights to other similar styles, wear them and see if they're comfortable and make your own mind up. there is a danger that some manufacturers will see others making light shoes and boots and then say shave a couple of grammes off and call theirs lightweight just to jump on the bandwagon

try before you buy! 

I switched this summer to Salomon XA Pro  3Ds. Perfect. Support seems to come from the heel up rather than from the ankle down. I rarely turn my ankle in these shoes as I can react before it becomes a problem. My old Scarpa SLs do protect my ankles but are far more tiring to wear and less responsive.

It does seem alien if you've always worn boots on the hill but a good pair of trail shoes work far better than stiff boots. Which has left me in a quandary. Help me here.