I am a little confused by the options available for reproofing a two layer Goretex garment.  The advice to wash in soap instead of detergent is fine, but then you have the option to use a spray on proofer or a wash-in proofer, with the implication that it is better to use a wash-in proofer and then tumble dry the garment to spread the proofing evenly through the fabric. 

 If you used any wash in proofer, would you not compromise the wicking lining by making it waterproof?  As we are told we should be reproofing our breathable garments a lot more often than we think,  I am all for the easiest option, but do not want to ruin the breathabilty of my jacket (if I havent already) 

Also.. has anyone tried Comfort conditioner, which I recall Trail mag saying was better than anything else for durability and effectiveness?

Chris,

I think you are right to want to use the spray on proofer for the reasons you state - the lining neds to be able to wick - a wash in will have the opposite effect.

Here is a link to a previous discussion on using Comfort.

I know this may sound dumb, but how do you tell how many layers it is? I've got a Berghaus High Trails XCR and it looks to be just the outer material (grey outside, white inside) and then the Airtex type material inside, which would not be affected by a waterproofing treatment.

I'm a bit dissapointed with the DWR layer on this coat, it's had very little use and is wetting out a lot in places that don't see any wear or tear. 

Stu

The D in DWR is basically a dishonest fib.  There's nothing durable about any water repellant coating that I've ever seen, except non-breathable solutions like wax.

I find that even after re-proofing, my jackets start to wet out the first time they get wet or after a couple of hours of use, whichever happens later.   It's worst under the arms and around the cuffs, and fairly pathetic at the points where the fasteners are on the front.

Brian

Are you refering to goretex products? if so I would concur.

However, I only re-proof Paramo out of the shame of having not reproofed it..... I have never been dribbled on by paramo (down the chin or otherwise). It just keeps going on until you feel the urge to do something out of guilt, like buy some TX direct then you re-proof just for the sake of saying "I re-proofed my jacket"

Did I metion that Paramo is dry - and that everyone ought to have one......

Paramo.  It's heavy.  I've picked them up from the rail a couple of times just to put them right back without even taking them from the hangar.  I don't wear a waterproof most of the time when walking, and something like that would add significantly to my pack weight.

 My favourite is my eVent jacket.  I wouldn't buy another Gore-Tex product, having tried eVent.

Heavy is it.......

Ok, yes heavier than most - but in spring autumn and winter you can save on layers

A Parameta base layer and a jacket on top! - and Bobs your dry uncle.

Honestly - I wear a paramo and carry a spare paramo (as spare dry clothing) along with a pair of Rab Downpour salopettes. There is  no need to carry extra clothing and your spares are waterproof up to the ying yang.

It would have been a pair of Paramo Salopettes but being of a short leg the knee supports tend to be near my ankles

Edit: Did I metion that Paramo is dry - and that everyone ought to have one......

FB - I've had a Fuera smock for about six weeks.  Since then it has been washed (in Tech Wash) and proofed (with TX Direct).  This was to make up a load as I was washing another (eVENT) jacket to stop it from wetting out.

Last week the Fuera was in very fine rain for about five minutes and it had already wetted out on the inside of the elbows!

I agree with Brianetta that D should stand for dishonest.

David, to be fair the Fuera smock is not a waterproof - it's a windproof.

FB - I was trying to make a comment on water repellency (is there such a word?), not water proofness.  The Paramo web site says the Fuera "offers maintainable water-repellency".  It also says "Made from Nikwax Windproof to .... deflect the rain"

PS did you formerly work for BAS?

Later edit - just been filing away some bits and bobs and these included the Feura receipt.  The Aftercare label states: "To waterproof your Analogy Windproof we recommend that you use ... TX Direct ...".  So, as this is what I've done I should now have a waterproof Fuera!

Thanks to all for the advice, and also for the link to the Comfort thread.   I am convinced that I dont need to try it!  

The consensus seems to be that rubbish as all DWR coatings seem to be, we do need them to maintain optimum breathability.  However, for a 2 layer garment i.e anything which has a wicking lining, making the lining non wicking by waterproofing it does not make sense. 

Which is why I am a bit confused about the Paramo recommended Nikwax wash in proofing.  Surely they should recommend that it be used only on single layer garments...?, though this would eliminate most of their products from using this.

Reproofing and washing these very expensive products seems to be a minefield of conflicting and vague information.  For years I sold Gore-Tex and told my customers to wash it in mild detergent (whatever that is) which was the info from Gore at the time.  Now that would be heresy.  I wish manufacturers would come up with a definitive version and stick with it.

Mind you, something to do with this might be that usually the face fabric and lining fabric come from different fabric manufacturers with different care criteria.  I remember once coming across a jacket with two different and conflicting care labels.  One for the outer fabric, and one for the lining.  There were no instructions as to how to achieve this in one garment apart from taking a pair of scissors to it.....

DF in answer to your PS - Yes.

If that makes sense....

for goretex the marketing says it's a wicking mesh liner because it sounds so much better than its actual use as a condensation mopper upper.

the plastic liner coating on goretex (so why isn't it a bin bag then? <ducks> absorbs water to pass it through the membrane and as such should be kept clean and not water repellant. remember, goretex proudly boasts that it keeps water out and makes no false or even dodgy claims. breathable? well yes compared to what was around at the time it was invented. shame about the keeping the water in too.

a fuera at most will be water repellant up to the point it wets out. it will never be water proof. if it was then it would rather knock a hole in the rest of the range. never had one wet out in the crook of the elbows before though.... i've been wet in those areas from condensation; which soon dries out.

 i view the waterproof range as something you wear, not something you carry. i know some masochistic people (imho) like to carry the heavy coat as a waterproof but each to their own. it repleaces a windproof shell and a fleece. or viewed another way, a waterproof insulation lined shell jacket. e.g. paramo instead of a vapour rise.

 but going back to the op. my opinion is that you won't notice the diffference by proofing the whole jacket rather than just the outside. you're still going to enjoy the warm wet air inside the jacket and the condensation whatever you do to it. contact with your body will wear the proofing off on your body anyway.

> I know this may sound dumb, but how do you tell how many layers it is?

A 2-layer ePTFE laminate is the face fabric and the ePTFE membrane, so you can see the white ePTFE membrane on the inside.  It will almost always be combined with a separate lining fabric to protect the membrane, either a mesh, or a lightweight woven lining.

A 3-layer ePTFE laminate consists of the ePTFE membrane sandwiched between the outer face and inner 'scrim' fabrics, so the inside looks like a fine grey mesh.  The scrim is intended to protect the membrane, and no separate lining fabric is required.

Since there is an extra layer of glue used in the 3-layer laminate fabric, it is usually less breathable than an equivalent 2-layer fabric.