Gear

Looking for some help from the kind people who frequent these forums please

As the title says, I am aiming to purchase a waterproof jacket for both locales.

I do not have any concerns with choosing a jacket for here in the UK but i want my choice to be capable of offering me protection in the Alps too (which is ultimately what i am working towards in the next 12 -18 months.)

So having done a bit of homework i am trying to work out if i really need to spend £200 plus to cover all eventualities or if i can get away with something like these?

Rab Bergen http://www.rab.uk.com/products_waterproof_bergenj.html

Rab Lofoton http://www.rab.uk.com/products_waterproof_lofoton.html 

I certainly dont want to cut corners at the risk of safety in the alps, but i am hoping the above with an extra layer will be more than a match for the dedicated mountaineering jackets, would i be correct in this assumption?

thanks in advance for any help offered

H 

Rab Jackets are great, good material too. To be honest thoguh I would be more concerned about a jacket that preforms well in the UK. Its not by chance that people who do a lot of mountaineering in Scotland happen to be many of the best in the world! Here in the UK you get WET, and thats a lot harder to protect against then cold and snow.

As for the jacket, I would go for a Rab one, which I have done

Got a Lofoten on sale Sept. Perfect for my purposes - Scottish Hill-walking. Relatively long, all 4 pockets accessible with pack, brilliant hood, Event noticeably more breathable than GTX XCR.

Don't know what your planning in Alps but would its length interfere with mountaineering gear?

towerridge.co.uk were good for Rab.

I certainly dont want to cut corners at the risk of safety in the alps, but i am hoping the above with an extra layer will be more than a match for the dedicated mountaineering jackets, would i be correct in this assumption?

Either are considerably better than all sorts of jackets that have topped out north walls in the Alps over the last century, all you might sacrifice is the last ounce of convenience using them with a helmet or harness and if they otherwise meet your criteria well I wouldn't worry too much.

You might get a bit more spindrift down your neck when wearing these with a helmet, but OTOH you'll not get so damp a bum bogtrotting in Scotland...

I personally would go for the lighter one: however super waterproof/breathable fabrics are they're still sweatier than not wearing them so I only resort to waterproofs when it's got really manky, and lighter ones take up less space and weight in my pack. 

Pete. 

towerridge.co.uk were good for Rab.

Agreed, ordered a VR Smock from them a couple weeks back.  Great price and very quick postage for free.

It all depends what you intend doing in the Alps. For summer walking, everyone parades around wearing shorts and teeshits, maybe throwing a cheapo plastic mac on top when it rains. I think the lightest gear that you'd normally wear in for British summer hillwalking would be fine for a normal Alpine walkabout. If you're thinking of climbing onto glaciers and bivvying out up there, or visiting in the winter, then you'll need to wrap up a whole lot more than you would in the UK.

Well thanks all for the prompt replies all, looks like a Rab it is then

In Answer to Kinley, i am aiming for an ascent of mont blanc ultimately, so more walking than climbing, although a harness will still be necessary i guess. Will try and find a stockiest of rab gear near me and give them a try i guess.

Thanks again

Mont Blanc? Oh well in that case I'd forget about the shorts, teeshirt and cheapo plastic mac! If it turns nasty up there, you want full winter kit.

I met a guy on the GR5 this summer... the first person I met making a south to north traverse on the route. He was carrying a hug pack and I wondered why he needed so much gear. He also told me that he was only going to be walking for three weeks, and was finishing the GR5 at Chamonix. I asked him why he didn't give it a few more days and finish off the whole thing... then he let me in on the master plan. The walk from Nice to Chamonix was just so that he would be tough enough to climb Mont Blanc when he got there, and the big pack... well that contained all his kit for the summit bid. Climbing Mont Blanc from sea level! Can't be many people who do that.

In 1996 Goran Kropp rode his bike all the way from his sea-level home in Sweden to Everest, climbed it without oxygen, and cycled home again!

H Shah

My contribution 

For an alpine/scottish winter jacket, in addition to the obvious, you should be looking for a big hood so it will go over a climbing helmet and high pockets (at stomach height rather than waist height) so you can still use them whilst wearing a climbing harness. 

I was in Chamonix this summer and meet numerous people who had not enjoyed or in the case of one air lifted off Mont Blanc and this was purely due not enough acclimatisation.

If you want to climb Mont blanc it is despite the low technical grade a serious climb and people underestimate it resulting several deaths each year. Make sure you acclimatise first by doing some 3000ers and at least one 4000m peak.

Descending mont blanc in 2000 in a blizzard was one of the scariest moments of my life,thank god I had a guide.

Three tips when doing M.B.

1) Acclimatise

2) Acclimatise

3) Acclimatise

I've been climbing in the alps most years for the last 15 years with different people and there is no definitive answer, different people acclimatize at different rates and can start from different heights before they feel any ill effects. No-one acclimatizes the same or starts to feel the effects from the same base point. It does not relate to how fit you are or anything like that, it's just a lottery. The most super fit person can be felled by serious alititude effects at 3000m or less, or the most unfit person can climb straight to 4500m or above, with no obvious ill effects, it's got nothing to do with fitness in my experience, it is purely pot luck.

For example, I'm of average fitness, I've been a social smoker since the age of 15, I have learnt that I can climb straight to approx. 4000m with no ill effects, but going straight to 4500m has caused me serious discomfort. A friend who is super fit and has never smoked starts to feel ill at 3000m or below. Another friend who is a bit overweight, unfit and doesn't make much of an effort to get fit prior to an alps trip, can go straight to 4500m and sleep there overnight with no ill effects whatsoever.

2 years ago, I went to the Bernese Oberland with a super fit walker/climber and after doing some short acclimatizing routes to 3000m we went to stay in a hut at 3600m and he got Pulmenory Odemia (water on the lunges) which I thought was only a very high alt. sickness. We had to descent pretty quick as PO can be fatal. I was perfectly OK, but astonished at how badly he was affected at what I considered a fairly achieveable altitude with some basic acclimatizing.

The textbook answer is to climb high and sleep low, upping the height on each day by about 500m. If you start by going to 3000m, then up by 500m each day, you should be acclimatized within a few days, but it may take longer. Maybe you can use high alt. cable cars to aclimatize quicker. Nobody can give you a definate answer, you have to actually go to alititude and experience how well you acclimatize, but for your first time in the alps you should err on the side of caution.