 will soon be going to climb between 4000-6500m. looking for advice on what sort of hand wear i will need, as not sure if thermal liners and gtx sking gloves will be warm enough. hands " run cold " in ice/snow. thanks. H
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  Are we talking the complete layering system for the hands here then maybe? Gloves, inner gloves, outer mitts?
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Traditional mountaineers Dachstein mitts come to mind first off, although the choices now are huge of course too. Silk inner golves maybe too perhaps.
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| Edited: 17/10/08 05:58 |
 Mitts warmer than gloves, and layering is my preferred solution. You probably don't need formal waterproofing becuase over 4000m it'll all be frozen anyway, but a Goretex glove will make it more flexible for e.g. Scottish use in future and probably gives you a better choice. Mitts give less dexterity than gloves, but personally I find thick gloves sufficiently clumsy that I'm not much worse off in mittens and for things requiring individual finger attention I'll slip off the shell (you absolutely do want wrist loops, clips that attach to a jacket require you to be wearing a compatible jacket at all times so i prefer an independent loop) and have better feel in the thinner inner layers. You can use gloves as inners to mittens. "Sniper" gloves with a thumb, trigger-figgerand mitt section for the other three fingers may be a useful compromise. I'd try and avoid a glove like a ski-glove with an integral lining. Once they get wet (through sweat) they're beasts to get dry. With a layer system you just swap in a new pair of inners to the shell and you're dry again. With this in mind, a selection of inners doesn't hurt and protects against loss (possible even with a wrist loop, and it could really snooker you on a big route without a spare). If you've found inners you like then Extremities do a plain over-mitt (Tuff Bags) which is a good bit of kit. Pete.
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Watch out if you're looking at waterproof gloves and mitts aimed at walkers/climbers, because quite a lot of them also have liners that can't be separated from the shell, and that design is ridiculous for the reason given by Peter.
Peter's suggestion of the Tuff Bags is a good one, and Dachstein mitts, as advocated by Trevor, are also excellent -- and very cheap by outdoor gear standards.
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 Would second Pete's comments (as usual spot-on!) about layering and dexterity. While I haven't been climbing, I've used a combo of light inner gloves, Buffalo pile/pertex mitts and GTX paclite overmitts in longterm winter hiking to -20 or so. These all dry in no time, and you can mix & match for different conditions. Turn the Buffalos inside out and the black pile flashes dry in any sunlight. Fit is important - mustn't be too tight, and the layers must interwork comfortaby and permit your fingers to bend - figure on plenty of time in a shop to get it all right !! Cant comment if paclites are tough enough for rockwork though ... Cheers Judy
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| Edited: 17/10/08 12:10 |
The Tuff Bags aren't actually Paclite, although often advertised as such (I think because of a Rab packaging error). They're XCR and pretty tough, although I wouldn't make a habit of climbing when wearing them.
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 I've climbed using thick gloves at 6000 metres or so on south faces in the Andes. Mitts are great for warmth if you're walking, but awful for dexterity on a route - if you practice you should be able to tie knots, places screws and so on, with mitts you nearly always have to take them off. They're also a pain for holding an ice axe by the head. For water ice climbing I sort of use a modular system with a shell outer glove and a mix of inner gloves depending on how cold it is. I'd second what Pete says about ski gloves with waterproof bags and inegral linings, they tend to get wet, take ages to dry and often invert, pulling out of the fingers, cos they're not stitched, and are a nightmare to get straight again. I'm a bit out of touch on the high altitude glove front at the moment, but Mountain Equipment recently showed me their revamped glove range, that looks pretty impressive with differential pile etc, erm, here. I'd look at Rab as well, Outdoor Research, Black Diamond and possibly MHW to name a few.
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They're also a pain for holding an ice axe by the head. ??? Can't say I'd ever noticed a problem... Pete.
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 There's another reason for carrying mitts, even if they are just for backup. In the event of damaging a finger on the hill (perhaps breaking or... in climbing... pinging a tendon) the usual fix is to tape fingers together to immobilise the injured one. Now try putting a glove back on....! The warmest gloves I own are some ancient Hipora-lined (waterproof) Lowe Alpine Mountain gloves. They are roasty and their waterproofing has stayed good for the 15 years I have had them... but they have a few major flaws... the biggest being that the insulation layer doesn't detach. I used them for the winter climbing that I did in the past, but as I don't get the opportunity for that at present, they remain a backup option now. These days I generally rely on a layering principle too. I have some thermolite liners that are pretty good; a polartec 200 fleece glove and a simple waterproof outer mitt. In the pack I carry another pair of liner gloves, some Sticky Thicky extremities (a bit more substantial than a liner but still OK under other things) & some HH Olten Mitts (fibre pile). This might sound like overkill, but I am carrying spares that my wife can use if necessary. I'm sure that I'd invest in a pair of buffalo mitts or Dachsteins if I planned to do more winter climbing, but for walking I don't find I have too much to worry about.
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Outstanding thread guys! Really excellent stuff! 'While I haven't been climbing, I've used a combo of light inner gloves, Buffalo pile/pertex mitts and GTX paclite overmitts in longterm winter hiking to -20 or so. These all dry in no time, and you can mix & match for different conditions. Turn the Buffalos inside out and the black pile flashes dry in any sunlight.' - Wrote Judy.  Good point there Judy, I intended to mention Buffalo 'Double P System' pile/pertex mitts too, as I simply just love 'em! As for that bit at the end there though, turning the mitts inside out to dry, to see black pile linings; unless you get the olive green Buffalo mitts of course, like mine, as the pile inners too are also olive green!
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| Edited: 17/10/08 13:58 |
They're also a pain for holding an ice axe by the head. ??? Can't say I'd ever noticed a problem... Pete.
I have smallish hands, which probably doesn't help.
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 You could go down the vapour barrier route. RBH Designs in the US have some interesting mitts.
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thanks folks, loads of advice their, the reason i mentioned the sking gloves was i allready have some and thought i might get away with them. yes i use the layer system, usually, silk liners, polertec 100 liners and for walking :- the ski gloves, for climbing :- Extrimites Winter Gauntlet. maybe all i'd need to add would be a pair of mitts, perhaps the Tuff Bags, or the Mountain Mitts. H
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http://www.outside.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/9702%7C%7C~@c~Gloves~@b%7C15%7Cuser%7C1,0,0,1%7C26%7COr short link. - Thought I would list these here as I only spotted them tonight. The boiled wool mix approach, but a more modern type of mitt using the older Dachstein mitt style mix formula, rather than being pure wool like the original Dachsteins. So they are cheaper here too. Worth considering here for fifteen quid and free postage and packing, I thought maybe. From Outdoor Designs. They do the full glove alternative version there too by the way. But I reckon somehow that the mitt will hold it shape better overall if getting really soaked through ever.
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| Edited: 28/10/08 00:09 |
Trevor, thanks for the link, but going by most of the pic's on t'net of what i intend doing, it looks like i need a glove with a DWR type outer. thanks anyway H
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Yes, quite right. But truly Dachstein type finish mitts and gloves are not ever most usually used as the outer glove anyway by climbers or mountaineers; but instead as an inner protective glove part of the layering system on the hands essentially only.
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| Edited: 29/10/08 06:19 |
