Gear

I like you have never been lucky with all of my countless boots, leaking within a short time.

My latest Scarpa's started leaking badly this summer on a 7 day walk where I couldn't get them dry overnight (wildcamping) so very annoying.

When i got home I put them in a bucket of water to soak, after about 20 mins, the water had penetrated the fabric and the liner was ballooning in, the worse one soon started to leak through a small hole, which I have patched now, but not tried in really wet weather since. The other did not leak through although my socks were a bit wet on the same trip.

Might be usefull trying the bucket test?

I can certainly tell the difference between boots damp on the inside from sweat and condensation and wringing out a cold wet sock at the end of the day. 

I take the point that walking all day through bog and rain, with the boot constantly immersed in water can overwhelm the liner.  But then, is that not the point of forking out upto £50 extra for the priviledge of getting a waterproof liner that is supposed to stop your feet getting wet?

It looks as if I am not alone in getting wet feet, though there seem to be many who do not have a problem.  The annoying thing, is that lined boots take so long to dry out.  Not a problem if they stay dry inside, but if they are soaked outside and in, it can take days.  The suede and Nubuck faced boots seem to be the worst. 

It seems there are two options. 1. Forget about liners and buy boots that dry quickly and put up with wet feet for the duration of the walk.  Or 2.  Just ensure that you dont go out if it might rain.

Leather Zmberlans never leaked after around 3 years of use (even when sole started to come away,fixed with glue and like new)

Nubuck Haglofs Solid lite never leaked ,about a year old.

Scarpa Chamoz never leaked tho i have only worn them around 12 times.

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Guess im just a lucky one.

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Chris Lawrence 5 wrote (see)

I take the point that walking all day through bog and rain, with the boot constantly immersed in water can overwhelm the liner.  But then, is that not the point of forking out upto £50 extra for the priviledge of getting a waterproof liner that is supposed to stop your feet getting wet?

The annoying thing, is that lined boots take so long to dry out.  Not a problem if they stay dry inside, but if they are soaked outside and in, it can take days.  The suede and Nubuck faced boots seem to be the worst. 

The point is that in extremely wet conditions, you'll probably get wet feet anyway, whatever you wear.  In less than extreme conditions (i.e. most of the time) lined boots will keep your feet dry when unlined ones won't.

This assertion that lined boots take ages to dry is one I've often seen stated as fact, yet I can't recall any difference in drying times when I switched from unlined to lined boots.  Why does a lined boot take longer to dry? 

I once saw a complete Gore-Tex liner for (I think) a Salomon boot, and it fully encased the foot up to the top of the instep and the ankle bone.  The interesting thing about it was that the joining seam ran the full length of the boot under the foot, and this seam was not taped.  Elementary you may think considering how many thousands of times this seam is likely to flex in the course of a walk, and everytime it flexes the seam would part slightly and be a potential water ingress point.

On the other hand, none of my boots have ever leaked under the foot, and I have always felt the first icy fingers of water appearing around the top and the sides of the forefoot, which is where the boot flexes most.  I have also never noticed leaks in the heel area either, which points to the toes and forefoot as the most vulnerable points.

When the boots are new, they can take almost any conditions including prolonged total immersion in their stride.  Give it a couple of months, and the liners start to fail.  Of course, not all my walking is done in the rain (though it feels like it) and I wear unlined shoes in summer, so the problem takes longer to appear.  When inevitably it  does, I just think 'here we go again'.

Chris Lawrence 5 wrote (see)

When the boots are new, they can take almost any conditions including prolonged total immersion in their stride.  Give it a couple of months, and the liners start to fail.  Of course, not all my walking is done in the rain (though it feels like it) and I wear unlined shoes in summer, so the problem takes longer to appear.  When inevitably it  does, I just think 'here we go again'.

Of all the times I've seen this debated, it seems to come down to two factions as follows:

1. Lined boots are hot and sweaty, they always leak, take ages to dry out, the lining is just a marketing gimmick, I'm going back to unlined boots, that Ned Ludd had the right idea etc or:
2. I've used lined boots for years, I look after them, they are not hotter than unlined, I haven't noticed longer drying times, they keep my feet dry so I'm happy with them.
   

Neither side seems able to back up its views with any clear evidence but I fear that you fall into the first of the 2 groups...  

Reading through the posts, at a wild guess based on the knowlege that boot fit and comfort is very much an individual thing, I'm begining to feel that the permiability or lack of, could also be a very individual thing.

Of course its no comfort to find out that the hours and hours you've spent trying to find the best fit and comfort that you can afford, only to find that those wonderful new boots you've just invested in, leak faster than a colander with extra large holes!

Only a wilde guess and I could be way off the mark.....  

interesting jake but how do i vbak up with eveidence that my boots don't leak?

lined shoes take far longer to dry - comparative drying after being washed in a machine

lined fabric shoes are far hotter - a matter of ventilation - stick hair dryer inside -  can i feel warm air coming out

full leather boots don't need a liner and hence is a gimmick - evidence - every pair of full leather boots i have owned have never leaked.

i look after all my footwear lined and unlined. my opinion on others woes with lined footwear can only be surmised by connecting, possibly tenuously, that i look after my footwear and lace it correctly and it doesn't leak. or in other words try to eliminate anything that will rub on the liner.

Jake wrote (see)

1. Lined boots are hot and sweaty, they always leak, take ages to dry out, the lining is just a marketing gimmick, I'm going back to unlined boots, that Ned Ludd had the right idea etc or:
2. I've used lined boots for years, I look after them, they are not hotter than unlined, I haven't noticed longer drying times, they keep my feet dry so I'm happy with them.

Neither side seems able to back up its views with any clear evidence but I fear that you fall into the first of the 2 groups...  

Benco wrote (see)

Jake wrote (see)

1. Lined boots are hot and sweaty, they always leak, take ages to dry out, the lining is just a marketing gimmick, I'm going back to unlined boots, that Ned Ludd had the right idea etc or:
2. I've used lined boots for years, I look after them, they are not hotter than unlined, I haven't noticed longer drying times, they keep my feet dry so I'm happy with them.

Neither side seems able to back up its views with any clear evidence but I fear that you fall into the first of the 2 groups...  

Why the censure Jake? if wearing unlined waterproof footwear (ie unlined leather boots) or quick drying footwear (ie unlined fabric/mesh shoes or boots) works for someone what's the problem?

It's not censure at all, just an observation. 

I'm simply pointing out what always happens when we debate this issue - most people seem to have a Marmite attitude to lined footwear.

I'm sure that everyone will go on using whatever works for them.  I know I will.  I fall into the second camp by the way.  Gosh, I appear to be censuring myself.

For what it is worth:

In my experience lined (fabric/fabric-leather) boots have leaked after a while (initially just some seepage, then more substantially).  It was interesting to see the possible link with Superfeet (which I do use, but want to continue to do so) and regular maintenance.  I admire those who have the dedication and time to wash out the insides of their boots regularly, but suspect I and some others are too lazy/busy to do this.

I've recently tried some ion mask leather boots, and to be honest have been very impressed. The leather is quite thin, but they have so far proved very good at keeping out water in the most vile of underfoot conditions.  Of course they are not waterproof by a strict definition, but they are effectively so (slight dampness after several very wet hillwalking days is fine, better than sodden feet with a broken breathable membrane).     

 One thing I've always wondered about lined fabric boots/shoes is whether the lining breathes in wet conditions.  After all, there is no DWR coated outer immediately over the membrane, so once it is saturated with water it becomes a non-breathable membrane.  Of course breathability returns once dried out.  For this reason in winter I often just use some large plastic bags inside fabric shoes to achieve the Gore Tex effect without the leaks.  If worn over thick socks and it is not to warm this works surprisingly well.