Gear

I'm considering getting a new jacket for various wintry things, such as skiing, ski touring and mountaineering. I'm not entirely happy with my current gear (goretex... not so great when I'm hot and sweaty, stretchy softshell... not so great when its raining). I'm ambivalent about pile/pertex, so something paramo-like is probably in order. 

I'm specifically looking for something that fits well, is hard wearing, has a helmet-compable hood (with a decent brim), and will be used in near-freezing temperatures (or a bit below) when there's a risk of rain, etc. I don't care about dealing with warmer or much colder weather; I've already got some perfectly nice equipment for that.

I'm not quite the right shape for Paramo's own jackets, unfortunately. Cioch seem like a good bet though a pricey one, and I can't find any reviews or talk about their Harta jacket (but one guy ordered a Glamaig with fully lined sleeves and a big hood which seems fairly close). The Furtech claw2 is another, much cheaper option, assuming I can find somewhere to try one on. Too bad they don't seem to be planning a claw3. There's also Hilltrek's offering, but that's looking a bit more hiking-oriented.

Any thoughts? suggestions? abuse?

Finisterre used to do a good jacket.

But since Paramo dropped the weight on the Velez Adventure Light Jacket, this is the jacket i use and love for the type of conditions you mentioned.

Would like a Furtech though.

If you're thinking of something from Cioch but unsure cf differences then I really would reccomend e-mailing them for information. Very helpful people.

The Harta certainly looks suitably 'serious' with all the reinforcements and stuff everywhere and I do like their winter hood. (never tried with a helmet though.).

Nick the ex Mod wrote (see)

Finisterre used to do a good jacket.

But since Paramo dropped the weight on the Velez Adventure Light Jacket, this is the jacket i use and love for the type of conditions you mentioned.

Would like a Furtech though.

That's a smock. I have the Quito, a jacket, its not helmet compatible hood of the type you'd wear over a helmet but I wear mine cycling with hood under helmet, the fabric so thin its not an issue. Really good for cycling althoughbetter if they added about 4" to the rear so it drips off the body.

I'd also question the lighter fabrics from such as VAL, Quito, Vista, in contexts which say "hard wearing" - I'd be looking at Velez. Cycling doesn't need "hard wearing".

For the described context, about freezing, hard-wearing, I'd go with Velez, or the Velez Adventure Smock.

I agree with Martin about an e-mail, or phone call to Neil or Helen.

I have the Cioch Harta and it is "serious" - and, it fits just so!

Performance-wise it has taken everything that a full blown Scottish Winter can throw at it.

I've also got a Glamaig smock with fully lined sleeves. There are some who have commented that it is their only Winter jacket. Certainly, it too has performed very well - I've worn it in full blown blizzards and it's been very comfortable.

So, if you get in touch with Cioch they will run through the pros and cons. I know - others have commented - you can even end up with a sort of hybrid if you want.

They are a big outlay, but, you get the quality and the fit.

Argh, just wrote up a detailed response and accidentally closed the wrong tab.

So, shorter, grumpier answer: I've used the Velez Adventure (non-light) smock in the past, and it wasn't quite what I was looking for at the time. Its a lot closer to my current needs, but I'm pretty certain that I'd prefer a non-Paramo manufactured item due to fit issues (I'd really like a well fitted jacket this time) and I'd prefer a jacket to a smock for this sort of gear as the better venting is worth a lot to me.

I've got an old pair of Aspira salopettes, my only current Paramo item. The fit isn't flattering, but I woldn't expect salopettes to make me look good  They are very tough feeling and have survived a fair bit of punishment... I had a look at lighter-weight paramo fabric (on the Quito, I believe) last year, and it didn't feel anywhere near as robust, though that might not necessarily mean very much.

I'll probably drop the Cioch folk a line at some point, and ask them a few things. I'd very much like to see the Harta in person, but its a bit of a trek from East Anglia to Skye! The cost of the Harta over the Furtech Claw2 is a big negative (there are other things I need to buy this winter too!) so I'll see what sort of fancy features they can provide.

Fancy features/hybrid is a good way of putting it. They made me a smock using the best bits of other smocks. With reinforced smocky bits, and everything.

Seriously helpful folk.

Cioch made me custom-fit salopettes a couple of years ago -a far more flattering fit than my previous Paramo Aspiras, plus they incorporated a few custom features into the design. Neil and Helen were very good to deal with over several phone calls to nail down my requirements.

If you do end up looking at Paramo again despiteyour issues with fit, then I wouldn't necessarily rule out the lighter fabrics. My Velez Adventure Light is entering its thirds winter and showing no signs of wear - it gets used for winter walking/mountaineering (not technical winter climbing), backpacking, ski touring and downhill, and I find it every bit as protective as the Aspira smock it superceded.

I too was looking for a while for a Paramo-alike that would fit me.

I tried a Furtech Claw 2 (in Large) which I bought on OM

It is a 'better' cut than Paramo Alta 2 (not such fat arms or boxy body), though I  found that the sleeves (like a Paramo L), were still only just long enough for me, and it was a little tight across the shoulders

I couldn't see myself using it often in above zero temps  - esp. whilst walking uphill - heavier liner than current Paramo, and also, the real deal breaker for me was that the double pocket arrangement means you have an awful lot of layers across your chest - in some places it felt like 4 layers of liner due to the pocket overlap.  The Pitzips were great though.

I sold it on on OM for what I paid.

In the end I got a Glamaig Smock from Cioch. Which really is a perfect fit. I'm very happy with it (the map pocket access via the main zip is a minor niggle - another zip slider would sort it)

Although it's my winter waterproof (I mainly walk near home on Dartmoor with the odd foray north when I can get away), I wouldn't consider it a winter mountain jacket as such. It would at least need better designed pockets and a helmet compatible hood for that, and probably a heavier face fabric.

I'd definitely consider the Harta if I was in your shoes.

Mole wrote (see)

I too was looking for a while for a Paramo-alike that would fit me.

I tried a Furtech Claw 2 (in Large) which I bought on OM (snip)

I sold it on on OM for what I paid.

Ahh, now that's the sort of thing I'm interested to hear about. The double pocket layers seem a little daft, to be honest, and I didn't know that the liner was noticably heavier.

Mole wrote (see)

In the end I got a Glamaig Smock from Cioch. (snip)

I wouldn't consider it a winter mountain jacket as such. It would at least need better designed pockets and a helmet compatible hood for that, and probably a heavier face fabric.

I'd definitely consider the Harta if I was in your shoes.

There's a blogger out there who's one of the very few people to write much about the glamaig (redyeti/drw) who had his made with the Harta hood and was quite pleased with that. He did grumble about the pockets, mind you.

Well, seems like everyone feels that Cioch is awesome, so I'll drop them a line and ask them questions about important things, like colour. And pit zips.

Neil said they  couldn't do pit zips when i asked - just side zips like a Buffalo smock (which I went for) .  The flaps do snag in the zippers occasionally, (like on sleeping bags and my Scarp tent...) but I can live with that - just need to remember to hold a fingertip ahead of the zipper)

If it's the position of the lower handwarming pockets he grumbled about( hip belt interference with), I accidently solved that by asking for such a long torso that access to mine is just below my hipbelt - I went a 1.5" longer body than Neil suggested .

Well now they've got Paramo's outer fabric as an option you could even reproduce some of their 'special' colour schemes

One thing - the Glamaig smock style has a lot of venting. Long side vents and a three quarter length front zip to go with it. Can't really imagine wanting more. A definite trade off in terms of useful pocket space yes as no Kangaroo or even tunnel pocket.

Oh and (having both hood styles), the non winter hood is OK but its definetly worth getting the winter one for 'real' use. Truly great being to wind it up right over your nose then breath through it while laughing at the horizontal hail being driven at you. One of those unique perks of Paramo I suspect

Which reminds me - full length lined sleeves definetly a good idea. Not that half lined sleeves fatal as such but a bit annoying and I did get mine 'filled' in recently. Which iirc they did pretty much for free and without complaint

Glamaig smock style has a lot of venting. Long side vents and a three quarter length front zip to go with it. Can't really imagine wanting more.

If you're wearing something lined and it's warm enough to not wear it at all, you'll never have enough venting. I would agree that there comes a point where adding more holes just isn't worth doing though, and for winter you'll usually get away with it with a suitable choice of base layer.

People noted above that Finisterre did an Analogy jacket (the Storm Track, I have one), but it's ceased to exist (they've changed to a more conventional 2.5 layer formally waterpoof construction with their current waterproof) so no need to look down that avenue unless one comes up second hand.

Pete.

Another big  for Cioch. I have got a Cioch Glamaig with centre zip. Didn't have the winter hood, probably would do if I got another.

As others have said they will customise and perfect fit really is great. You take the jacket out of its bag and it fits perfectly, it's a great feeling. I treat my jacket like a loved prized possession!

They even put up with question after question....

Do it, the price is good especially if you consider it's hand made in the UK and made to fit YOU.

I hand wash my 'Paramo' stuff by the way to avoid any contamination and iron afterwards. Never been wet, or even damp, which is great feeling. You can get hot sometimes, but zips are for venting and remind yourself that you could be getting hot and damp rather than just hot. This means that when you stop for a rest you don't cool off so much as you are not damp / clammy.

I didn't get the winter hood (I think! - it wasn't discussed) - the hood is OK and I've 'Really' used it too - I wear a baseball cap anyhow with all hoods cos of my specs  so wouldn't be able to  cinch it right down to a nose hole  - and wouldn't if I could as I wouldn't be able to see ....

But, I did go for the fully lined sleeves - couldn't see the point of not doing so really for the temps I use it in.

I have a Furtech Claw 2 and I'm very happy with it. The fit suited me better than Paramo. They do come up small across the shoulders though, I'm a 36" chest and needed a medium. It is quite warm, hill walking in winter I just wear a medium weight merino base layer under it.

Furtech only have small and medium left in stock, but there is large on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/furtech-claw-jacket-used-size-large-/300631996535?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sports_Clothing_LE&hash=item45ff103877