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I'm off to Bavaria on Saturday. I'll be travelling around by train, and I wondered if anybody had used the trains in Germany recently. Last time I did was about 8 years ago, and they had this bizarre system where you buy your ticket but it's not actually valid until you've 'franked' it at some machine on the platform before you board the train (obviously I only discovered this after I had boarded a train with a technically invalid ticket...). Do they still do that?
I don't want to get into another bilingual argument with an over-zealous German conductor, so I'd like to be forewarned.
After all, there's only so many times you can shout "Ich verstehe nicht!" at an angry rail official who's ranting at you in 'colourful' german before it begins to get embarrassing...
If you travel after 9 am and do not use express trains up to 5 people can travel together in Bavaria for the day for about 30 euros. Ulm counts as Bavaria for this purpose. There are similar tickets for the other regions.
The on line timetable has an option to avoid express trains. The DB web site explains this in more detail.
Yes, you still have to stick your ticket into the Entwerter. You'll find that this also applies on buses and trams around the country - even if you buy your ticket from the driver.
The use of franking machines is fairly common around Europe. The UK is the 'odd man out' in this respect. Doesn't really matter where you go in the world, it's always a good idea to brush up on local rules and regulations in advance. On the Metro in Budapest, you can get a 'book' of dirt-cheap tickets, but you have to frank them before you cross a yellow line inside each Metro station. I found out this to my cost some years ago, and foolishly asked a ticket inspector to point me in the direction of the relevant machines. He gave me an on-the-spot fine instead! When I protested and said I hadn't even crossed a yellow line yet, he escorted me back through the station, pointed to the floor, where a heavily-scuffed line could just about be discerned through its remaining flecks of yellow paint. On the plus side, the 'fine' turned out to double as a ticket to my final destination, but it cost more than the 'book' of ten tickets. By the way, you can't argue with the Metro guards in Budapest. There are lots of them, and they're armed with wooden clubs!
In Italy, where you MUST have a ticket before you get on a train, I wanted to make a short journey from a small unstaffed station, and found that the ticket machine had been completely ripped off the wall and trashed. I got on the train anyway, and had a really tough time arguing with the conductor. Eventually, he accepted my explanation, but the time it took to argue my case was exactly the time it took to get to my destination, and the upshot was that I got off the train and still didn't have a ticket!
However, looking on the Deutsche Bahn website it says:
Ticket inspection on the train
On DB trains it is not necessary to stamp your ticket before you get on board. Your ticket will be checked at least once per journey. You will have to show your ticket again, if staff changes or when you change trains.
So now I'm a bit confused!!
As far as the Lander Tickets go, presumably these don't need to be franked do they (or do they?), as they can be used on lots of trains all day.
I had a couple of Americans staying with me a few days ago, checking out the Lake District for the first time. Their flight was delayed by one whole day, the aircraft apparently being unworthy of flight! Not their fault, I'm sure you'll agree. They'd pre-booked tickets for rail travel in the UK, but of course they were a day late, so had to get another train. You can imagine how miffed they were to be told that their tickets couldn't be used, and further miffed to find themselves stung with the full fare for travel that day. In other words, they had to pay twice each for one journey. Now, if it was me checking the tickets, I'd simply accept that it wasn't their fault they were a day late. Last year, an American stayed with me and was using a pre-booked ticket. She missed her train to London, but wasn't given any hassle for travelling on the next train. In fact, rail staff went out of their way to ensure that her travel went well.
In Italy, where you MUST have a ticket before you get on a train, I wanted to make a short journey from a small unstaffed station, and found that the ticket machine had been completely ripped off the wall and trashed. I got on the train anyway, and had a really tough time arguing with the conductor. Eventually, he accepted my explanation, but the time it took to argue my case was exactly the time it took to get to my destination, and the upshot was that I got off the train and still didn't have a ticket!
LOL!!! Too busy kicking off to actually do his job of selling a ticket!!
But anyway, can anybody clear up the 'franking your ticket before you board' in Germany thing? The experiences of those above suggest you still need to, but then the bit I quoted from the DB site above suggests you don't! I suppose I can just ask a member of DB staff when I land at Munich, but I'd feel happier knowing beforehand!
I've found German railway staff very helpful in the past, and they've even told me about things I had no idea about, saving me plenty of cash. I was once travelling by train for a day's walking with two other people, and I tried to buy three return tickets. The ticket seller asked if we were staying together all day, and I said that we were. He then offered me an incredibly cheap ticket for exactly the same journey, but pointed out that we did have to travel as a 'group' at all times to be able to use it. Basically, the money we saved paid for our lunch at a fine log-cabin restaurant surrounded by snow in the Black Forest. So yeah... be sure to ask them for advice.
Cool, thanks for that Paddy. I know it's stupid, but I always have this fear of the unknown when it comes to visiting a foreign country - I like to be prepared! Even though I've been to Germany about 20 times in my life, this is the first time that I will be travelling around purely using public transport.
From what I've read, that 'group' ticket sounds like a Lander Ticket - it seems up to 5 people can travel on the one ticket. Seems good value - up to 5 travel all day within one of the German states for about 30 Euros.
Even though I've not lived there for the past 3 years, I might be able to help out here, being German:
You don't have to frank DB tickets, but if you buy tickets for journeys within a regional public transport network ("Verkehrsverbund") you usually have to frank them, since they use the same sort of system as buses and trams.
The Laender-Tickets are group tickets and tend to be really good value. They started of about 15 years ago as the "Nice-Weekend-Ticket" where you could go all over Germany on local trains with 5 people for about 15 DM - great way of going on holiday as a student Unfortunately DB decided subsequently it was too cheap...
guessing bit late now for this, but i was there a couple of weeks ago and i didnt frank any of my tickets and didnt have any problem. hope u have a good trip!
Having now returned from Bavaria, the answer is... Yes and no!
Some tickets do still require 'franking', but some don't. Tickets for the S-Bahn and the U-Bahn and the trams etc. generally needed to be franked (unless you buy them on the tram etc., in which case they are automatically franked when they are dispensed). Tickets for trains didn't need franking before travel, and were stamped onboard by the conductor, as is the case in this country.
Generally speaking, if the ticket is smallish and narrow (about the size of a small till receipt) it needs to be stamped in the machine before travel - the dead giveaway is that it will say 'Hier Entwerten' at one end; that means you stick that end into the 'entwerten' machine on platforms etc. to stamp it. To be honest though, we never once had tickets checked on either the U-Bahn, the S-Bahn or the trams. Tickets were only checked on trains and you obviously have to show them when boarding a bus. It's a 40 Euro on the spot fine if you are caught fare-dodging though, and considering how cheap the tickets are, it's not worth the risk.
All that aside, I was very impressed with the whole travel system they have over there. Not only was it clean, extremely efficient, and easy to use, it was also incredibly good value. Trains, trams, buses, the underground - they all integrate seamlessly. Trains seem scheduled so that you only have to wait about 4 or 5 minutes before your connecting train leaves. Buses or trams leave from where the trains arrive, and all buses and trams had clear maps showing the routes of each service, so it was easy to see exactly where you needed to get off to change service, and announcements telling you what the next stop was - OK, that's not special for trains and the Underground, but on buses it's brilliant. It was easier getting a bus around random Bavarian towns I've never been to before than it is to get buses around the town in which I live.
On one day, my girlfriend and I went to Neuschwanstein Castle. We got the tram to Munich Hauptbahnhof (central station), a train from Munich to Buchloe, change at Buchloe for a train to Fuessen, from Fuessen a bus to Hohenschwangau. Totel time about 2.5 hours (about 6 minutes of which was spent waiting for transport to depart). We then went up to the castle and had a look around etc. Then, bus back to Fuessen, from where we got a bus to Oberammagau (40 mins journey). Had a look around Oberammagau, then train from Oberammagau to Murnau, change at Murnau for train to Munich, then tram from Munich Hbf back to the hotel. Total leg time about 2 hours, with just a handful of minutes waiting for connecting services.
So, the whole day included just over 5 hours of public transport travel covering approximately 200km - and the total cost for this for my girlfriend and I was 27 Euros, approximately £11 each. Unbelievably good value.
travelling in germany can be a joy. an efficient, cheap public transport system isn't a dream. maybe it's one of the reasons you can only keep germans in one place by nailing them down.
out of interest michael, was the transport fairly well used by the "locals"?
Yes, a lot of locals were using the system, especially the trams and buses. In fact, the passengers on buses and trams in Munich were virtually all locals, and the buses in the towns around Bavaria were mostly being used by locals. The exception was the buses to and from Hohenschwangau, which were mostly tourists making their way to and from Neuschwanstein Castle.
Certainly around Munich (both city centre and the suburbs), the public transport system appeared to be well used by locals. In the suburban towns, such as Dachau, the bus systems were excellent, and again heavily used by locals.
It was a joy to use the German public transport system - very different to my experiences in this country. Even though some of the regional trains were quite old, they were efficient, clean and really smooth (Railtrack take note). I'd rather sit on a 30 year old train that does what it's supposed to, when it's supposed to, than a modern train that rattles and bumps over every set of points, throws your luggage off the storage shelves, is invariably late, expensive, and drops you off miles from where you have to catch your bus for the next leg of your journey.
Incidentally, the very first journey on our trip was from Lancaster to Manchester Airport by train. This cost us over £17 each, for a journey of approx 65 miles, which took approx 2 hours - and included a 45 minute coach from Lancaster to Preston because of engineering works on the rail line. Pathetic by comparison.
