i agree if not carrying an ice axe (walking one) then stay on the level ground and not the hills
|
 |
 I'm with Peter on this one. You'll see me with crampons & poles on some hills. Axe will come out when required but on easy terrain the spikes & poles will do more than the axe in keeping me upright
|
|
 And I'm with Peter and Rosswm (the three must-ski-teers  ). I've done numerous winter, multi-day mountain trips without even leaving home with an ice axe and crampons. Equally there are other trips and locations where I wouldn't be without them. But blanket statements like John's up above simply don't make any sense to me.
|
|
 I recall one occasion on Lochnagar after a big dump of snow, then a crash-thaw and then a subsequent re-freeze. Water ice over pretty much the whole hill, crampons essential and an axe almost entirely useless (anyone thinking they're likley to self arrest on water ice anything much off horizontal is, I suspect, living in a dream world). Coming down in deep snow you probably stand more chance of injuring yourself with an axe than finding much useful for it to do. If you've ever tried to do self arrest practice in soft, deep snow you'll know it's very difficult to pick up speed even if you're actively trying. Ski touring in Scotland for a day I'll often have an axe but very rarely take it out. Touring in Norway I don't take one: more weight than I want and a shovel is a better use of carrying capacity for what I'm at, though hills are very definitely involved. That you can't do without an axe in winter is rather on the same lines as you can't go up hills (at any time) without wearing Stout Footwear With Proper Ankle Support: something that won't see you wrong but isn't actually the only answer when you look a bit harder. Pete.
|
|
 As I've mentioned elsewhere on this Forum, this winter I've found poles and spikes (microspikes or crampons) a perfect combination in the Brecon Beacons, and on a trip up the Cairngorms last winter I used crampons and poles for a lot of the walk, put away the poles and pulled out the axe when necessary.
|
|
sorry about that i should have been more exact i mean when you are on a hill above a certain height and not a walk around the local park with a bump in the grass/snow.all so not everyone is interested in ridge walking in the snow they might just want an enjoyable winter hike then poles and crampons or ice spikes will do fine i agree
|
|
sorry about that i should have been more exact i mean when you are on a hill above a certain height And what is that height? Ice axes are useful according to the particular conditions in terms of slope, snow depth and hardness, not according to some magic altitude figure. This was taken in Norway and is well over 1000m. You'll note the absence of an axe. You'll also note the presence of a considerable descent just beyond, and we went out of our way to do it on the snow because it meant we could glissade down in a few minutes rather than plod in a few tens of minutes. Pete.
|
|
oh jesus pete it is just an opinion that an ice axe would be usefull depending on the conditions i mean if it is july and baking hot then you might not need the ice axe. i am sorry that i am not explaining myself well enough i though it was a question of common sense and judgement of the conditions and terrain etc i have two walking poles that are carbon fibre and there great trekmates make them but i more ofton than not do not bring them with me
|
|
it is just an opinion that an ice axe would be usefull depending on the conditions Quite so. It's just a case of think a bit more about what those conditions are.
|
|
ok pete well have you seen the British mountaineering council dvd winter essentials ! isbn 0903908921 i would recommend it highly as it is very educational !
|
|
|
|
|
To re-quote myself from earlier: That you can't do without an axe in winter is rather on the same lines as you can't go up hills (at any time) without wearing Stout Footwear With Proper Ankle Support: something that won't see you wrong but isn't actually the only answer when you look a bit harder. If you know why the rules are there it makes bending them more reasonable, but in any case "essential" is ridiculously over-used with safety gear these days.
|
|
well when comes to advice i always listen to people who know more than me IE the British mountaineering council .if i get into difficulty i only have myself to blame
|
|
Just came on to this thread a bit late, but here is my tuppence worth.
Regarding the original post, yes poles are worth while. I never used them for my first 30 odd years of hillwalking, but when my nephew went to the Far East on an Expat basis, he left his hillwalking gear with me. I eventually tried the Kohla poles he left behind. Great for river crossings and descents, but I was over my macho belief that poles are for wimps, they have their place in a hill walkers gear options. I moved on to lightweight Leki Makalu's when the tarps came along, but the forward inclined handles of the Kohla's were much more comfortable than the straight handles on the Leki's. I have since moved on to Pacer Poles and they are much, much better than either the Kohla's or Leki's. Firstly in terms of wrist/arm comfort and secondly in maintaining an upright posture whilst walking.
As far as the latest postings are concerned, crampons/axe/poles, I suppose it is mostly down to your individual level of confidence and competence. The combination of crampons&axe or crampons&poles can only really be determined by the individual and what they know they are capable of, or comfortable doing.
I have at times very confidently descended hard packed snow down Am Binnien heading to Ben More using crampons and poles whereas at other times in deep fresh snow, the crampons stayed in the sack, the poles were stashed away and the ice axe came out. Same hills, but different conditions, requiring different options.
There are so many variables, but the main ones are always the experience and the competence of the individual.
|
|
