But hang on! If I save 56p per day, in 6 months time when the NeoAir comes out - I'll have enough money to buy one... and I'll glide stealthily under the Credit Card Statement Alert Radar, which is manned continually by the wife!!

The watcher on the walls she is for you there doing that though don't forget, Rocky mate; just much like those folks on guard mentioned in the Bible manning the walls, and looking after the safety of the city of Jerusalem even maybe!

I'm sure she is, by occasionally limiting your your new kit acquisitions there, merely looking after your own best interests a lot of the time. For instance, if we all got to buying, completely unstopped and unchecked, all the kit we wanted every time a shiny new bit took our fancy, just where would we put it all? For likely otherwise, in that situation then, our homes would not be big enough to house it all would they now! Unless that is maybe, we all go get ourselves a nice separate kit room sorted out, like Matt reputedly has himself there of course!

Oké the NeoAir is a bummer, it's no match for the Exped downmat series. The NeoAir has only a fairly low R-value of 2.5. 

 http://www.basegear.com/thermarest-neoair.html

I don't have either so I'm not tying my flag to any mast, but going on a rough weight, size, r value ratio, the Neo Air seems to be slightly better... possibly, I'm no scientist or mathematician!

That's not counting for comfort, personal taste and whatever.

Zuma, surely you're comparing apples and pears? R-value isn't the only criterion.

Yes the Downmat 7 has a far higher R-value and it's a brilliant mat when you need comfort and insulation at a reasonable weight and packed size. The NeoAir design simply trades warmth for weight, and there are plenty of locations and seasons where it's particular blend of characteristics will be perfect for people - that hardly makes it 'a bummer', just different. In fact I suspect the NeoAir will hit the better blend of warmth vs weight vs comfort for far more (3-season) campers than will ever truly need the full insulative performance of the Expeds.

Dear Matt,

Of course I agree with you. However an R-value of 2.5 in early spring or late autumn is rather low.  You therefore might need quicker a warmer bag.  And I think it's rather expensive to buy it as a second mat for the warmer parts of the seasons even if it saves some weight when you can use it properly (e.g. not too cold). However if you have the mun it even is a nice addition to your kit.

I'm with you on that one Jamie.

I sleep fine on a closed cell matt, and given that 14mm of closed cell gives you an R-value of between 3 & 4 without any risk of puncture or failure, I tend to use them year round. I have the advantage of sleeping mostly on my back, of course. A 4-season closed cell matt comes in at around 400g; less if you take a blade to it. If I wanted a plump airy thing, I'd go for the neoAir with a thin matt and still come in well under the 900g of an full length exped 7 with sack.  As you say, if you get a puncture you can't repair, and if you can't find the A-team, you'll still have a sleeping matt.

Obviously, this doesn't consider bulk as a factor... which it often would be if you were trying to fit everything into a light weight pack...

related discussion here

[and when I said 'I'm with you on that one' above, I meant in concept... I'm not asking to share yours Jamie ]

Is bulk such a huge issue with that?

The Neo air itself packs very small of course - that and comfort seem to be (on paper ) it's biggest selling points.  Seems to be something like 1 litre vs 3-4(?) for the downmat.

(it's warmth/weight is good but doesn't look hugely better than say their prolites.)

So if the foam mat is one of those ones which fits down the back of a rucksack(maybe as the back system) you'll be doing all right.

I agree, Martin, but it's about the only thing (besides comfort, obviously) that is against a classic closed cell roll matt.

And I'd imagine that some nice herbal sleeping pills (hipflask... Mike?) & a pair of earplugs would weigh a lot less than what most people carry for a good night's sleep!

John

(Incidentally, I don't believe in intoxication in the mountains... really and truly... I nearly killed myself like that)

When I started hiking I slept on a TAR. The frigging thing delaminated on my trip. There I stood with my repair kit for punctures.... So I transfered to a 14mm EVA pad and I did use it the whole year throught. But in winters it was still rather cold and truth is it's not that comfortabl such an EVA pad (I'm a side sleeper).

So I changed to John's method. I aquired a 3/4 TAR which I used in combination with my 14mm EVA. Two flies in 1 stroke: better comfort and better isolation in winter. Ther was only onde downside: the packing volume of this set. I alwyas found the big EVA pad on the outside of my backpack not that pleasant. It was managable but that's all. And now I needed also volume in my back pack for the 3/4 TAR.

So therefore I switched to the 3/4 Exped 7 downmat. I use it with a downsized 14mm EVA pad for my feet. The Exped will not delaminate and only can get punctured. And therefor I've my repair kit with me. The 3/4 Exped has a very low packing volume. And the downsized EVA mat fits no very easily and caompact on the outside of my backpack. I even can sometimes stow it in my backpack.

The TAR NeoAir can also be easily used in conjuction with a TAR selfinflatable or EVA pad to upgrade it. It's the same idea as upgrading an EVA pad. The TAR NeoAir hopfully cannot delaminate either so a small rpair kit should sufice. But I'll stick to my Exped, I do not have to upgrade this baby. I only need a EVA patch for my feet in the winter and a small repair kit.