Thanks for all that info, MoS, but how would you have found all those numbers etc if you weren't posting on OM with it's clutch of ex-army peeps to pass on info? I wouldn't have known where to start...
As Mos points out it's on the web, but it's also on OS maps, guide books, range notice boards, infomation boards in the main carparks plus and in the visitor center in Princetown.
I hadn't heard the term 'dry-firing' previously, either. I still would not (in your place) want to be anywhere near dry firing - one does read occasionally about training exercises where soldiers have been accidentally given live rounds and have ended up shooting a colleague. Include me out.
I guess it could happen... but at the end of the day as a member of the public your not the target, plus the military must go through millions of blank rounds so I reckon the chance of you being shoot (as a member of the public) are up there with being hit by meteorite. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the risk. (does anyone know of a member of the public being hit?) But I would understand people finding it unsettling or intimidating.
By the way I've got no connection with the forces.
Anyway MoS what's your plan now you know about the training areas?
Thanks for asking, caveman john. I suppose the main difference for me now, is knowing where I can or can't encounter dry firing. That information will help me make choices.
How much effect it will have on where I walk, I'm not quite sure yet. I suppose if I really fancy a quiet day out with no possibility of encountering dry firing, I can avoid the training areas completely. But I really like the North moor and I don't want to avoid a part of it all the time for that reason. So sometimes I'll 'risk it' and if should I encounter dry firing, I'll probably feel less intimidated, now that I know a bit more about it.
If I see soldiers in the distance and I'm unsure what they're doing, at least I can be sure (depending on where they are on my modified map) if there's any chance they may be dry firing. If they're in the training area they might be, if they're outside they're definitely not. It'll help me make my mind up on whether to give them a wide berth.
If I still lived in Devon and was out on the moor evenings and weekends, I'd probably walk where I wanted and accept that every now and then I'm going to run into dry firing.
But I get down there once a month now and squeezing in a day or even a few hours on the moor is important to me and I want it to be good.
probably inert ammo, looks like the real thing unlike blanks. Couple of ways to find out, one involves a bonfire, other involves a hammer and nail, both are dangerous
There are also railway tracks and trains. Very, very dangerous.
My mates and I found a box of hand grenades once in a loft in a Nissen hut on a disused wartime airfield. Over the years we found live .303 rounds and AA shells. We used to "ration" the "finding" of the AA shells for sequential bomb disposal callouts because we thought they were very exciting and entertaining. A bit naughty but we were only 10 and 11 year olds. After the third find police got suspicious, gathered us all up and watched over us while a naval BDU officer (apparently, the nearest BDU was a naval one) interrogated us and demanded to know where our stash was. After we'd grassed each other up we were kept in two groups, each group in a separate cell while our parents were sent for. In the meantime, while we were waiting for them to arrive, we were subjected to a stern talking to which included information about the possible long custodial penalties for our crimes. We were frightened witless and our parents were spitting feathers but, other than 2 weeks grounding, we were let off.
In retrospect, I think the authorities would have had a lot of explaining to do in court if we had been prosecuted.
> CP, that was too picky even for you, not to mention taken out of context!
Wasn't meant to be picky; just relating my childhood experiences. I see MoS has dug out the live fire incident reports.
And no, I'm pretty sure it wasn't inert ammo. The hammer and nail was one of the scenarios featured in the unpleasant films we were made to watch at school in an attempt to dissuade us from picking stuff up in the woods. It made us wary, but didn't stop us picking it up... or throwing flashbangs on the bonfire...
The MoD also use Bodmin Moor for dry training as we found out when walking there a few years back and ended up in the middle of a training exercise. It was impossible then to find out any more information and the only thing I can find now on Google is in this Public Information Leaflet which says nothing more than "the MOD licences over 1600 hectares of (Bodmin Moor) for dry training, including Millpool Range, a 600m 10 lane gallery firing range."
Millpool Range is a Danger Area, fenced off, flags flying etc but the areas of the East and West Moors used for dry training are unsigned, unfenced and are now access land.
I find the biggest pain in the ass on Dartmoor to be the irresponsible dog walkers that even though they have just gone through a gate stating that all dogs must be on leads at certain times of the year happily let theirs run wherever they want.
I dont mean you rescue boys and girls,you do a damn fine job and long may you continue to do so.I'm talking about,well I think you know the sort of person I'm talking about.Roll on winter
I once came across one of your dummies between the gate and Willsworthy firing range,I knew it was'nt there when I left the car park but it was there on the way back.Allthough I was pretty sure it was a dummy I had to go and have a look after all it may have been some poor bugger with a broken leg or something.I dont mind telling you I was crapping myself (not literally) as I was walking towards it,could'nt help laughing when I got to it though.
Thanks Wayne,interesting page.Hope it does'nt come over as me being anti-dog,I have a cracking black lab called Rocky.He's two and a half years old and loves it on Dartmoor,I live on Bodmin Moor so it's the type of ground he's used to.We always seem to have a problem when he's on his lead and there are other dogs running loose,they always seem to want to have a go at him but when he's off the lead theres no problem.It's very frustrating when it seems that I'm the only one sticking to the rules.
I was going to PM you, but it seems your message function is not on.
Your last post to me came across (IMHO) as a bit stupid.
You say you have no connection to the military, and that is fair enough. I think you may have totally mis understood where I was coming from in my desire not to show OM as a place where issue stuff is given out (especially as the MOD/Landmark had been asked to look this forum up)
I feel that what I am saying may seem pointless to you, but then in my "Green Slime" career, I did spend an awfully large amount of time carrying out damage limitations after some well meaning and good natured idiot had just passed on some restricted or secret info as he/she did not know better, and did not realise the damage it had caused. That said, I did comment to you, that this type of thing may not apply in your case, only to be answered with "FFS".
Although this thread (as with all OM threads) went off on a few tangents I notice on another outdoors news website that a new guide about access to military training areas, walking and riding on Dartmoor is being issued, and it has also has a link to the Defence Estates website.
I'm in the process of moving further south so will probably find myself on Dartmoor more frequently now so will try to read a copy.
The Army have trashed bits of Dartmoor. Roads, huts on the summit of Steeperton and Rough Tors etc, flag poles and marker poles everywhere and I've seen everything from empty cartridge cases, old smoke grenades and bits of what looked like mortars lying around in the firing areas.
I was no huge fan of Anthony Steen, MP for South Hams, but at least he actually came out and said what he thought about the impact of the Army on the Moor.
Anyone interested in this should read the report below.
