_(Custom).jpg) Hi all,
I'm trying to find the perfect multi use sack that I can use for just day walks but also overnighters too. Possibly even carry on luggage to boot.
When camping I take a tarp, hammock, rollmat etc and my alpkit down bag. I figured something in the 45-50 litre range would be about right. When I went on a multi night trip with my son last year I used a sabre45 with side pouches which took me to about 75l in total, but I feel sure I can slim things down, and I'm after a nicer back system and belt than the sabre can offer.
So far I'm thinking of:
osprey kestrel 48
lowe alpine centro airzone 45 + 10
berghaus freeflow 50
thoughts?
Thanks!
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 For day walks why are you looking for anything over 25L? One night summer overnight then 35 to 40L. One night winter then 45 to 50L is about right. There is no perfect sack, you have to buy gear.... Or so I've been led to believe..... 
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I suppose I like to be prepared (as we used to say in cubs!) which to some other people appears to be over packing. For me I'd generally use a 35l for a day trip and looking at 45-50l sacks is really slimming things down for overnighters. Generally when wild camping with my son I'll carry at least a 65l pack. Perhaps I'm just destined to have lots of bags (again)... 
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.JPG) For day walks why are you looking for anything over 25L? One night summer overnight then 35 to 40L. One night winter then 45 to 50L is about right.
surely that depends on what you take (weather/comfort) and how bulky it is?  Craig, I would would try out a few decent packs in stores if I was you. If you want to use them to carry half capacity, then they need to feel(carry and look) good used like that. A decent pack should be have a useful compression system to take up the slack. A good store will let you have a play. My dad carried a Freeflow 50 for the westhighland way - personally I thought it looked a bit of a dog- and after about 2 days of carrying it so did he! Over the top (too thick/stiff + abrasive fabric) hip belt and straps, and a pain to pack cos of the bow in the frame. Too heavy for what it was. The daft thing was he had a 50l Osprey (?) at home which he uses regularly for SAR. He told me he thought he'd give the berghaus a go as a mate had recommended it Osprey look like nice gear to me, as do some of the lowes but there are other makes to consider . Lowe have a really nice looking 50l pack coming out soon
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| Edited: 23/01/10 09:29 |
Thanks for the heads up. Those lowe packs look quite a bit like osprey to me. I've tended to use more robust kit in the past but feel like moving to some lighter gear.
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Craig, rucksack are almost as personal a matter as footwear so take what I say with a pinch of salt. But for your usage I'd take a look at the OMM packs. They do a 35L (Jirishanca) and a 45L (Villain) and the nice thing is that you can remove the bells and whistles when you use them as daypacks. That takes down weight and volume rather nicely.
They fit me really well and I can't think of any downside apart from the fact that they did something silly. If you fill up the Villain's extension tube, the lid doesn't quite close properly. So it is firmly a 45L sac and no more.
Other than that, they're fine packs and their flexibility is definitely an asset for the kind of use you've in mind.
I also like the Osprey Talon series. The 22L is the perfect day pack, the 33L has enough capacity for summer overnighters and cinches down nicely when empty. The 44L will do you a week in the summer quite easily. I find that my gear fits more comfortably in the Talons than in the corresponding OMM models. But the OMM are Dyneema, and so much tougher. They're also fairly weatherproof, whereas with the Talons you definitely want a pack liner to keep your stuff dry. So it depends on the kind of use you've got in mind. I use the Talons in the summer and the OMM in the winter (for my shoulders, the Talons have got more comfortable straps in the heat).
If you like it minimal, the GoLite packs, also in Dyneema, are tough and can reduce down to nothing (The Jam and the PInnacle in particular). Be prepared for rather basic straps and belt though, but lots of folks swear by them (I've no experience of either).
Finally, I used to use the Berghaus Freeflow 35 and 38 (I think). I think the 50L is more or less the same design? They're very sturdy packs and there was a lot to like about them. But they do sway a lot on your back if you do any scrambling at all. That and the weight meant that they're gathering dust in the garage now!
The OMM and the Talons do cling to your back like the proverbial limpet instead.
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well if you want lighter, and you carry a rollmat (as opposed to a self inflater) then the Golite Jam is worth a look - on offer for £45 very different from a sabre, but just as bombproof. I've been using a Jam for a few years, and recently upgraded to the one in the link - it's great - comfortable and has good compression system. A loosely coiled rollmat fits inside as a 'tube frame' for more stability with larger loads. Or even the Pinnacle (which I also have - 72l but can easily be used as a daysack when compressed)also on offer. I used to use 'traditional' heavy berghaus/karrimor packs, but wouldn't go back to them. The golite packs are much more versatile for both backpackingand daywalks in my experience edit - Just saw Fearnmores post - Omm are good - if they fit you - were always too short for me when I tried them the golite belt/straps are different than they originally were - much better - more padding/support
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| Edited: 23/01/10 10:22 |
 Craig, it might also be worth having a look at Lightwave packs. They are fairly simple in design - don't have lots of pockets and things - but they do compress down pretty well with the compression straps. I've got a 40 litre one which I use as a winter daypack, but could use for other things too if I didn't have a small collection of packs of various sizes...
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I'd looked at the talon 44 aswell actually. I don't want to go ultralight as some of those packs do t look like they very robust at all.
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Not too keen on the golite packs from what I've seen, plus I prefer a self inflating mat, even on the hammock (partially filled).
Sounds like the freeflow will be off the list as I do enjoy the odd scramble.
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well, I got 2 years regular use out of the first Jam - gave it a wash with soapy water and it looked almost as good as new - the dyneema fabric is same type as the OMM use. Bombproof - Sold it on ebay for the same price I paid for it! ps - I remember -the freeflow 50 also drove us nuts with its creaking every step! I prefer a self inflating mat, even on the hammock (partially filled). don't have to use a mat as the frame - just works better with heavier loads - in summer I just fold a SI 3/4 into 4 and use that (the GL packs do have an integrated foam 'frame anyway)
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| Edited: 23/01/10 10:36 |
 I don't know about the Ospreys, but the OMM Jiri and Villain mentioned above are easily as tough as more traditional looking robust packs, even if they may not look it. Dyneema is clever stuff.
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I'll defo check out the villain then!
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 I also have a Lightwave pack (made by the same people as make Crux) and I love it.
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So does the villain use pretty much te same back system as the sabre (I'd fformat)?
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 Dunno what the Sabre is like so can't comment but I do own a Villain. It gets comfier the more it's filled IME but then I personally have short back, it's held up well to a bit of scrambling too. Not too sure I'd call it 'weatherproof', I've had water pouring out of the drain holes in the bottom of the sack. I have a Freeflow in the loft, useless for scrambling, awful (sp) to pack but very comfy. The Villian is far too big for a daysack but I have other sacks for that.
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Are the wand pockets proper "stretchy" ones? I've had sacks in the past where the wand pockets are all but useless as they've had no give in them and were far too short too. Pockets on the belt/fins?
Thanks!
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Yes, the Villain has hip belt pockets, Craig. The wand pockets are fairly stretchy, they easily take Sigg bottles for instance. Forget about getting the bottle back into the pocket without taking the pack off though. You can grab the bottle out of the pocket, but it's near impossible to fit it back in.
When I said 'weatherproof' I was being too optimistic, yes. What I meant was: it will keep water out in gentle rain but no more. The Talons, by comparison, will let water in rather quickly. You still need to use drybags if heavy rain is forecast.
But as I said, the good thing about the Jirishanca/Villain is that you can remove lots of little things that you wouldn't need for a day trip and so they give you a bit of flexibility. If you take a look on the OMM website, they've a pdf file where you can clearly see how much you can remove from the pack (even the lid!).
Never seen the Sabre (nor heard of it, I'm afraid!!), so can't comment on that.
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Strangely, I found it simple to get bottles back into the wand pockets whilst on the move. Maybe I have monkey arms. Oook. The lid's only as removable as with any other pack; ie. you can take a pair of scissors to it. The MSC is removable, but you then lose the ability to compress the pack, and also one of it's most versatile features IMO.
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 You're right Se@n... I was getting confused with the OMM Mountain Mover, where you can remove the lid (I think. There are velcro straps securing the flap). Sorry for any confusion... And you're right too about the MSC. I always leave it on. But I can see the point in not taking it along (lets stuff flapping in the wind...).
As for the bottles, I wish I could manage your monkey trick... Maybe it's because I use it as my winter backpacking sac so it's always pretty full. Must practice more... In the end, I'm not sure what to recommend. As Mole said, the new Golite are more padded than the old ones. And they have hip belt pockets too, haven't they? The MSC is good in winter for keeping the snow shovel out of mischief, or storing wet stuff to dry on the move, whereas the front pocket on the Golite wouldn't quite do the same things, would it. And probably the Golite can be found cheaper? I suppose the only thing is really to try them on. I also hear rumours the 2010 OMM line will have adjustable backs, or be available in different sizes?
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