I agree that its great that Alpkit can offer goods at low low prices, hey i even have the poles myself, what everyone should not forget is that they are made in the far east (as is most of our beloved outdoor kit) by people who probably earn $50 a month for a 15hr, 7 day per week job.
If companies acted responsibly and developed a 'fairtrade' approach to production - in that the workers were treated fairly, had good working conditions and had resonable pay - we would all feel alot better about where our kit comes from and how it is made.
We all love the outdoors and we all repect nature for the joy she gives us, we just need to extend this to our brothers making our kit!!!
thus ends the lecture
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 From Alpkit's website:
"All Woomfs are born and bred in Derbyshire."
I presume some of their other stuff is, too.
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Its a difficult one this thread and one that will always cause controversy.
I think it would be pointless to get dragged into a debate over working ethics etc in the far east. I agree on Simon's suggestion that companies should develop a fair trade approach and all I can say is we are a small company trying our best.
Where we can we will attempt to get products or components manufacturer in the UK, but there simply isn't an robust infrastructure to support this. e.g. Most specialist fabric mills are in Japan and the far east, buckle manufacturers in mainly in the far east.
Our £5 headtorch attracts criticism due to its low price.. how can we do this etc, but what I think people should question is that we buy this product for the same price as many other companies purchase theirs. Yes, some of the more reputable manufacturers have large development & marketing costs to support but not many. Many just package an off the shelf item in more plastic than the product is made of and sell them at what ever price they think the market can withstand.
Sorry rant over.. I will say will always try to develop and source products from as fairer sources as we can. I'm off to read the fairtrade website.
Jim from ALPKIT.
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 Excellent nice to have a response from the horses mouth as it were, and best of luck with developing and sourcing fair trade stuff
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I have been reading up.. our company authority on this subject is currently playing on the frozen stuff!! :-(.
Fairtrade as a phrase or label that can be applied to products that can be farmed in developing countries. We should be talking about Ethical Trade. We shall be writing a more defined code of practice, than the one we have, that we will try to ensure our suppliers adhere too.
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Nice Dream Harry, but this is the real world.
Jim this is NOT a dig at Alpkit!!
Can you really see the directors and the boards of big concerns giving up thier wealth, just so Chow Yun Fat can have an extra bowl of rice a day - NO!
Even if the pay and conditions were improved in the far east, big business would just out source to some where else where the initial costs were lower to provide a larger profit.
I worked in the outdoor retail industry for many years, and i can tell you that the real mark up is between manufacturer and retailer.
For instance, we sold the Berghaus Pinnacle 3 Jacket for £180, the actual buy in price was £63 thats a 200% mark up.
We had to know the cost price so we could calculate staff purchases at cost + VAT + 10%.
I find it pleasing that the guys at Alpkit are cutting thier own margins to offer a product at a reasonable price.
Nice one Jim keep up the good work
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 A few thoughts...
The problem is, I think, that manufacturing was outsourced to the Far East a LONG time ago. With the result that there simply are no factories left in the UK that can be commissioned to produce the items. Large companies can have their own factories, but smaller ones like Alpkit would use factories that take on commissions from the companies, rather than be owned direct (if that makes any sense, I know what I mean!)
I know Alpkit make Phuds and Woomfs in the UK. Last year they were even advertising for Phud-stuffers :) (fab job title!). If they are also looking to provide an ethical statement too, in addition to the low prices, I don't really think one can ask for more :)
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Oh and for those that think the Outdoor Equipment/Clothing mark up is high
You want to see the mark ups for fashion clothing
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 The people who actually make the products in the factory may get paid $50 a month (I don't know the actual salary) but this is a wage based on local market forces and conditions. If you paid them the equivent wage for a UK worker you would soon end up with a workforce sitting in the top 5% of earners for that country.
Although not an exact comparison, look what happened in Nepal when tourists leaving would give their remaining money to the sherpa's, guides etc. $200 may not seem much, but on a local scale this is a fortune.
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To mirror Darrens post, i recently delivered a training course to some Lithuanians working in the UK Care Sector.
One lady was a qualified physio terrorist
and at home she was on a good wage of about £500 a month(equivalent), so if i went out there on my mothly earnings it would out me in the top 10% of earners.
Its all relative
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Physio terrorist???
Blimey. Bet you don't see that in the jobshop. ;-)
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My Physio was a total terrorist
but at least she got me walking again
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 You can try to buy stuff from brands like Patagonia who do (at least they say they do) create their products in friendly ways (take a look at the environmental essays on patagonia.com). Unfortunately though, most material etc is made in a handful of factories (Malden Mills make almost all the fleece I can think of).
The markup between manufacturer and retailers is quite ridiculous, I get stuff at a staff price of Trade Price + VAT, which amounts to roughly 50% off. Because I only pay this price I get to realise what the products are actually worth. For example, I absolutely love my icebreaker top, but would I love it if it had cost £90 rather than £45? Probably not. In this respect I often find that Patagonia (though one of the more expensive brands) often gives much better value for money than those such as the North Face.
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 Wow! What Icebreaker top costs £90?
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 I have worked in Hong Kong and China and have talked over this subject many times with friends who live in HK with relatives in mainland China.
Its important to balance the fact that most people in China work have a work ethic that we would find hard to understand. They work to earn money; as simple as that.
By our standards they may appear poor, but will have all have fridges/DVD/Video/Big TV's [because they are cheap there] Food in markets is unbelievably cheap as are beer, fags, etc..
They also have many utilities at a very cheap or free rate. Most housing is state subsidised. Most phone calls are free, and public transport is cheap.
Each adult has a tax allowance, so many low income families never pay any tax. The Health system is free,as is education; elderly people are venerated, and
and it is a relatively safe place to live.
The drawbacks are industrial pollution and poor safety standards, and sad treatment of [female ]children
I'm not trying to defend China and I condemn its Human Rights treatment of Tibet and its own citizens, but I have rarely seen or have described to me the sort of poverty that is regularly portrayed in the media in Africa or parts of the Indian sub- continent.
Dont assume 'Made in China' means 'made by slave labour in China'; because it aint necessarily true.
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 It's easy to have a crack at retailers and manufacturers on the pricing front, but ultimately people are in business to make money, not solely to provide a source of cheap outdoor equipment. Retailers have to pay their staff, run their premises, pay tax, bills, marketing costs and other overheads and still have enough left over to live on at the end of the day.
In the end it's a free market. No-one forces you to pay what you consider to be over the odds for outdoor kit. Ultimately if stuff is too expensive, it won't sell, simple as that.
I'm not saying that margins on outdoor clothing aren't high - actually they vary - but bear in mind that there are two sides to the story and, if you don't like the prices, you have the simple option of not paying them :-)
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Jon has a good point.
The company I work with only has 4 stores, it sells at the more expensive end of the market (yes, with those huge markups) but no single person in the company is making "millions". The owner is constantly developing the company, ploughing most money back into it and none of the directors are on salaries too far above normal. Alot of shop income pays for the running of the shops and specialist outdoor shops take nowhere near as much daily as similarly sized lifestyle/mainstream shops.
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