 Thought I'd start a thread for comments, any other multi-pitch tips that you'd like to share, suggestions for future articles etc.
So what you going to do? Belay above or below the crux...and more importantly why!
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| Edited: 31/03/06 09:54 |
 Cara Lyn... Here we go!
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 Suppose you're half way up a multi-pitch trad route. You're leading and find yourself underneath the crux with twenty metres of rope out beneath you. The gear on this pitch so far has been excellent but runs out a couple of metres beneath the crux. You can see there's no decent gear until a few metres past the crux. Question is: do you build a belay beneath the crux or push on past it?
(copied so I can see what I'm replying to)
If you build a belay at the crux, I'm then assuming there is NO more gear until afterwards, so nowhere to get an early runner in for the next pitch? I'm also assuming I'd have to lead the crux whatever (i.e. be it the finish of this pitch or the start of the next) and am not with anyone leading much harder than me who would find it a doddle.
In which case I'd carry on. Otherwise a fall immediately after the belay would put immense strain on the belay itself. Falling on the crux (a few metres up, and no gear) would mean a large fall factor with not much rope to absorb the impact. Falling at the same point with good runners below, and well above the belay, would mean loads of rope out from the bottom belay and a lower fall factor.
It's one of those situations where the heart is saying "shiiit I don't like this, let's stop here" and the head calculating fall factors and realising it's wiser to move on.
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 Not being an expert on multi pitch climbing, I'd suggest that given what is described as "bomb proof" protection, which is presumably at least as high up as it's possible to belay (if you can belay higher then why not put some protection in there?) that the correct thing to do is to keep climbing. If you fall, you'll fall just as far in either case, as the lead out from the last protection / belay is exactly the same. The difference is in the fall factor - if you put a belay in, you're potentially setting up a fall factor of 2 as you fall past the belay onto a length of rope only half as long as your fall. This is the sort of thing that puts big loads on everything. Given that you're presumably not going to climb more than another 20m up past your last protection, the maximum fall factor in the other case is 1, hence the loads are all at least halved.
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 I'd downclimb a bit so there is at least 1 good runner above me before building the belay.
Build a solid belay, then the leader goes up and puts in the good gear below the crux (Thus preventing (hopefully) a high fall factor onto the belay)
The pyscological boost from being heckled by your belayer close by, whilst tackling the crux should help prevent you falling off :)
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A real live route that fits this description is Grand Alliance a E4 6a on Black Crag in Borrowdale.
On this route you press on delicatly past the crux but all situations are different.
Other factors to consider.
If you muff it there is always more slack in the system than you think you are going to go at least 50ft.
Is your second experienced, alert & aware of what might happen?
Are you climbing with grades in hand or pushing your limit?
How much do you know about the route, what type of climbing is it, can you rest after the crux?
Is it dry?
Is it clean?
Is there potential for decking?
What does the landing look like?
Have you got your top bit of gear backed up with both ropes in play?
Are you feeling tired or jaded?
If you are pushing your limit on this type of route you really have to want to do it.
If you are happy with the answers to all these questions you are safer pressing on.
If not go and look for something with better protection.
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 > Get rid of all those non-load bearing krabs/clips that you use for racking and organising
Good advice, but who in their right mind has non-load bearing krabs on their rack in the first place? Anything big enough to rack a sensible amount of gear (nuts, hexes, etc.) will be big enough to be load-bearing, and the price difference between an 'accessory' krab and climbing krab of the same size will be negligible, in my experience.
Crux thing: agree carry on, putting last gear in as high as possible, thus minimising fall factor. If you must belay, as Daniel says, put gear in as high as possible below the crux, and then drop down to build the belay. It'll be a higher fall factor than carrying on, but it won't be FF 2.
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Good points, Kit. If you just think about the fall factor, you can theoretically double the distance between each runner, and not increase the fall factor. This doesn't take into account what you're going to fall onto in a long fall, or, as you say, slack in the system. Which is why most people put runners in fairly regularly, and the fall factor drops as you climb higher.
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 I think what's important hear putting aside the communication issue is what are you going to hit if you fall off, by not belaying you are putting an extra 20 meters of rope into the equation which has been pointed out will significantly reduce the impact force. So maybe there is no gear for 10 meters and you fall placing that first runner you are now 30 meters above the belay you will fall 20 meters and your dynamic climbing rope will probably elongate by about 30% (10meters)that puts you back at the Belay.
In realty if I was feeling brave I would probably go for it, but more likly I would belay and let my partner take the sharp end:-)
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 I agree with the majority. All other factors being equal, and assuming the runners are reasonably well spaced, it's better to fall further away from the belay than closer to it because of the fall factor. In general, and setting aside issues like what you might hit on the way down (that can occur anywhere on the pitch), it's better if the crux is nearer the end of the pitch than the beginning.
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I've got a suggestion nobody else seems to have thought of. Get out the bolt gun :-)
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 [gasp!]
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 I think this a problem of climbing effics. The effical thing to do is to belay below the crux and then second your partner up to the stance. The traditional call is then 'Eyup mate your pitch! Source: (Whillans et al 1953).
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I think this is a problem of climbing effics.
Ha ha Philip. Perhaps it's this 'tactical belaying' that gives us such short pitches in some guidebooks.
Here's something else that occured to me. I don't know if anyone's used the new(ish) 8mm stitched dyneema slings. They're light and compact but if they get loaded with knots in them (especially when wet) getting the knots out is a nightmare. I recently spent 10 minutes with cold hands on an awful belay in the alps trying to get a knot out of one. As usual it happened when I really didn't have 10 minutes to spare. For all round use I'd rather use the more traditional 12mm ones. Easier to get the knots out. Anyone else found the same thing or are my fingers not strong enough? (can your fingers ever be strong enough!)
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| Edited: 31/03/06 20:59 |
 Forget all that technical 8ollox about fall-factors an' stuff... stop messing about and get on wi' it. Yer big Jessie!
Get yer rear twitching, that way you know you are alive!
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 I found the same with the 8mm's and are horrible to get the knot out once loaded, i normally have to get my teeth in there.
i normally carry 12mm's anyway as i don't like threading the 8mm's. i try to use clove hitches, or set up rope belays, and leave the knots for abseil anchors.
To the killer question, i would bomb straight up if it was around my grade, i dont like the idea of half pitch belays, it reduces the amount of gear between us, i wouldnt even consider it unless there was a bomber belay. plus my climbing partner would cruse me, and a bit of air time always welcome;)
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 Would always carry on as the the chances of finding a good belay below the crux halfway up a pitch is usually zero, plus its never good having the crux just above your belay with crap gear.
So take a deep breath, wack some crap it'l slow me down gear in and push on up swearing, grunting and shacking as much as you see fit. Chances are it's within your grade otherwise you wouldnt be there and you've got to do it at some point!
Not used the new 8mm slings as i cant afford them being a student and all. Find the 10mm ones are bad enough at times esp when they freeze. 12mm's seem to be even worse tho, recently in the alps i made a square with a sling it was that solid! think its time for some new, less fluffy ones!
I have 2 non load bearing krabs on my rack, one holds 4 micro-wires which are so rarely used anything bigger just takes up to much space, the otherone holds my big gloves whilst setting up/climbing in winter.
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| Edited: 18/04/06 15:57 |
