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Do outdoor magazines have the foggiest?
 
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Do outdoor magazines have the foggiest?
Sometimes they know less than you...
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sally hotchkin
15/01/01 18:51
 Rookie 476 forum posts 49 articles 3 reviews
Is it just David, or does anyone else sometimes wonder about the research behind outdoor articles? I mean, there's no quality control on any advice given in specialist magazines (or websites for that matter) so how do you know you're not being fed a load of...If you picture people holding ice axes with no helmets on (as David points out in his letter) is this just aesthetics or downright irresponsible?
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Jon Doran
16/01/01 16:52
 Rookie 9677 forum posts 60 photos 5779 articles 10 reviews 14 bookmarks
I'd advise anyone to wear a helmet when ice climbing, it's common sense - the nature of ice is that big chunks of it fall off. If it's good enough for Stevie Haston, then it's good enough for me.

What I can't really imagine is a situation where outdoor magazines and web sites are policed to ensure 'correctness'. I mean, who decides what the 'right' standards are? Quite often there aren't definite answers, for example, most people would agree that helmets are pretty much essential on ice, but on sound rock it's much less clear. Then there's scrambling - when did you last see a picture of a scrambler in a magazine wearing a helmet? I can't remember, but scrambling accidents are notorious for head injuries because the participants are usually on easy-angled rock with lots of ledges to hit and often soloing.

Finally, looking at the feature David's referring to, in most of the climbing action pics, helmets are being worn and the text does say 'helmets are a must have for the sensible winter climber' even though, like him, I'd rather use an Petzl Ecrin as protection from impacts from above rather than a Meteor which is designed to work better in a fall situation, so maybe he's being understandbly a little harsh on OTH.

In the end, magazines are only a guide - if everyone copied what they saw in piccies, the world would be full of FHM and Loaded readers acting like idiots, whereas... I guess he has a point.

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Jester*
22/12/11 15:47
 Rookie 1927 forum posts 79 photos 10 reviews
sally hotchkin wrote (see)
Is it just David, or does anyone else sometimes wonder about the research behind outdoor articles? I mean, there's no quality control on any advice given in specialist magazines (or websites for that matter) so how do you know you're not being fed a load of...If you picture people holding ice axes with no helmets on (as David points out in his letter) is this just aesthetics or downright irresponsible?

Ten years on and Trail hasn't changed a bit...
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John Burley
22/12/11 16:55
 Rookie 4933 forum posts 113 photos 33 reviews 22 bookmarks

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01464/Zombie_1464917c.jpg


Gotta love the zombies...

Only now... ten years on... and we have hundreds of bloggers without the faintest idea what they are talking about to cloud the waters still further...

But also several experts who grace us with their musings (Andy Kirkpatrick, Chris Townsend et al)

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Kinley
22/12/11 18:06
 Rookie 2680 forum posts 82 photos 1 review
Ah - Jon Doran......whatever happened to him?
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Peter Clinch
22/12/11 18:21
 Rookie 5483 forum posts 5 photos 9 reviews

I'd never climb ice in a pitched situation without a lid because the nature of it is that most of what comes down is brought down by the leader, who will typically be above their second.  But soloing is actually much less likely to have stuff land on you and where you're at the crossover between "climbing" and "scrambling" (say, a short-cut up a frozen burn) it's less clear cut still.

Having said that, I remeber a walk on An Teallach where my two companions and I decided it was dodgy anough to put the lids on.  One of them got a head-sized block of ice on the noggin crossing a gully (sun melting stuff higher up).  Not very serious as it was, without a helmet it could well have knocked her senseless and if you're crossing a gully that's a really bad sort of place for that to happen...

Finally, if you look back at historical re-creations of stuff like the first ascents of big North Walls then helmets are conspicuous by their absence.  There is a distinction between "essential" and "sensible" and it's about as clear cut as the one between "sensible" and "worrying too much" (fuzzier than a lot of people assume, that is).

Pete.

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cathyjc
22/12/11 19:47
 Rookie 606 forum posts 11 bookmarks 1 classified
You don't have to be 'climbing' to get a rock on your head.
Years ago a group of us were out 'walking' up a steep grass gully behind the Old Dungeon Ghyll pub, heading for a day on the hills. Some idiots above let loose a load of stones and one of our party got a rock on the head and was knocked out. MR were a called and she was stretchered off to hospital for overnight. She came thru' OK, but it kind of wrecked our day. The folks who so carelessly caused this accident were completely unaware of what had happened. A lot of rocks were let loose and no shout or warning was given, in what was a busy area at a busy time.

So would you wear a lid when out for as stroll in the hills? Accidents happen.
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Metric Kate
22/12/11 19:51
cathyjc wrote (see)
 You don't have to be 'climbing' to get a rock on your head.
Quite! You can slip over and headbutt them!!

Though I have to confess, it changed my life for the better!


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Spiritburner
22/12/11 21:00
cathyjc wrote (see)
Some idiots above let loose a load of stones and one of our party got a rock on the head and was knocked out.

Been inches from that myself. The guy who dislodged it thought it was quite funny - initially.

Too bloody posh to shout 'below!'   Would rather KO someone & mutter 'Oops, sorry'

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Chewie
22/12/11 21:24
 Rookie 369 forum posts 1 photo

Rosswm wrote (see)
cathyjc wrote (see)
Some idiots above let loose a load of stones and one of our party got a rock on the head and was knocked out.

Been inches from that myself. The guy who dislodged it thought it was quite funny - initially.

Too bloody posh to shout 'below!'   Would rather KO someone & mutter 'Oops, sorry'

They dont need to be to posh to shout 'below'.

I spent a couple of if days in N Wales with a guy who was an outdoor ed instructor at a further education college.

Whilst doing Bristley Ridge, he didnt shout below once, and it was only cos I was watching and heard stones that I shouted. (and there were people there)

Apparently he was still going through his ML. Still cant work that out - teaching kids, because his alledged experience was enough. Didnt see any of it myself

I know a bit of paper does ever replace experience. but  God help us if he or his groups are out. if he leads by example.

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John Bailey
22/12/11 23:31
 Rookie 1541 forum posts 7 photos 18 reviews 1 bookmark
On the original subject the Jan 2012 edition of Trail has quite a lot of helmet use. Most of the shots in the Hill Skills section feature helmets. The photo at the start of the 4-season boots section does likewise and on page 73 there's even a berghaus/gore ad that features what looks like a Petzl Elios.
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huskyman
23/12/11 00:25
 Rookie 3635 forum posts 2 photos 7 reviews 1 bookmark

 One thing you have to think about,

 The climb may have been done upto that point with helmets on, but so you can see/reckonise climber, they may have been temperorally taken off for photo shot.

 I've seen this done, though not for shoots that would appear in usual 'outdoor mags.'

 Local ones to Ireland.

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